Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Mahler and the mandolin

  1. #1
    Registered User Nick Royal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    446

    Default

    I recall that a mandolin is used in one of Mahler's symphonies. Which one, and which movement?
    Thanks,
    Nick Royal
    Santa Cruz, CA

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    117

    Default

    If I'm not mistaken, it's the 7th symphony, though I can't remember which movement. There is also mandolin in his Das Lied von der Erde which I played about 20 years ago with the Baltimore Symphony.

  3. #3
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default

    Jonathan is correct. Here is a review of the Chicago Symphony playing Mahler's 7th on October 24, 2001:
    Quote Originally Posted by
    The most peaceful movement of the symphony followed, called “Nachtmusik.” As if 90 orchestral instruments don’t offer enough diversity for Mahler, he felt compelled to call on the guitar and the mandolin to provide the mood for this movement. Two beautifully played solos were heard, and the contrast between them couldn’t have been more striking. The percussive mandolin introduced the theme of the movement, marked “Andante amoroso,” (walking in a loving manner), and the violin -- played so mellifluously by concertmaster Robert Chen -- presented an equally beautiful offering later on in the movement.
    Jim
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  4. #4
    Registered User Neil Gladd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hyattsville, MD
    Posts
    872

    Default

    There is also a mandolin part in the 8th Symphony. Mahler used the mandolin 3 times altogether, and I've done each of them once with the National Symphony. The hardest part is counting the 3000 measure rests...

  5. The following members say thank you to Neil Gladd for this post:


  6. #5
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    I have played the solo in the 8th Symphony with the Vancouver Symphony. The mandolin bit comes about 50 minutes into the movement that follows the intermission; I used a stopwatch to alert me when to start counting. BC

  7. The following members say thank you to Bruce Clausen for this post:


  8. #6

    Default Re: Mahler and the mandolin

    Hello, I am looking at Mahler, Song of the Earth, mandolin part in the 4th movement.
    Does anyone know if this was written for standard tuning?
    it is playable but it looks like that the notes that should resonate as open strings, have to be stopped because of the awkward chords.I wonder if there is a better tunning for this.

    The music I think is old enough to be out of copyright so I hope I am not breaking any laws by pasting here the IMSLP liknk to the part.
    https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:IMSLPImageHandler/45987

    apologies if I am wrong about this.

    thank you very much

  9. The following members say thank you to alk for this post:


  10. #7
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    5,020

    Default Re: Mahler and the mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by beekeeper View Post
    Hello, I am looking at Mahler, Song of the Earth, mandolin part in the 4th movement.
    Does anyone know if this was written for standard tuning?
    it is playable but it looks like that the notes that should resonate as open strings, have to be stopped because of the awkward chords.I wonder if there is a better tuning for this.
    I'm looking at the part...the guys that actually played it with an orchestra will be more help....

    It should indicate if the part is in scordatura, or non-standard tuning. It seems to be standard tuning to me.

    "notes that should resonate as open strings, have to be stopped because of the awkward chords."

    Are you looking at the small notes that are cues for the other instruments? like rehearsal numbers 7-8, the "Pos." cues for trombone?

    If so that's just to let you know what else is happening in the music. The mandolin itself does not enter until the larger notes at 4 measures after number 8, the "Stark besezt" passage with the C-G-C fortissimo chord.

    At number 9 the chords are playable in normal tuning, but I'd play all those pitches as closed fingerings as if barred at the 5th fret.

    I'm looking forward to other players' ideas on this too.

  11. #8

    Default Re: Mahler and the mandolin

    Thank you for your reply!
    Yes I am aware that there are cues of other instruments.
    it is the amount of perfect fifths in the first 6 bars of the mandolin part that make me wonder. Especially the last chord, bar after 9, last beat, where you have to play C-G-D barred with 1 finger.
    it is uncomfortable and to me it looks unusual. I guess I should just practice it more.
    I also wonder if the instrument used in Vienna at the time would have been an italian style bowl-back. Thats what I'll be using.
    I have seen viennese guitars from the late 1800 and early 1900 but I don't know if there was such a thing as the Viennese mandolin.

  12. The following members say thank you to alk for this post:


  13. #9
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    1,919
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: Mahler and the mandolin

    Normal tuning is used for the solos in Das Lied von der Erde. Don't know what they used back then, but Gerrmans use bowlbacks now.

    I watched a video of Vienna Symphony playing the 7th and I could barely hear the bowlback player (nor the delicate guitar player using his fingertips. When we played it in Chicago I used the bent-top flatback owned by the orchestra, and I encouraged our guitar player to dig in. New York reviewer complimented conductor Pierre Boulez for placing us near the stage edge for better audibility, but it was our stronger playing that was effective.

    But I note that conductors have come to expect orchestral mandolin to be demure and not very audible. I don't know what Mahler expected, but I doubt he meant it to be inaudible.
    Bandcamp -- https://tomwright1.bandcamp.com/
    Videos--YouTube
    Sound Clips--SoundCloud
    The viola is proof that man is not rational

  14. The following members say thank you to Tom Wright for this post:


  15. #10

    Default Re: Mahler and the mandolin

    Thank you

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DBn_ph2-ac

    Abbado+Berlin Phil use 3 players for the part and you can certainly hear them (and see them, as the director filming the concert had a camera for them!) Check 54:10 on the video to see them, or a few secs earlier to hear the chords. I am not sure if they are splitting the chords but I think you are right, it should be done on standard tunning.
    The whole video is so beautiful!

  16. The following members say thank you to alk for this post:


  17. #11
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,541

    Default Re: Mahler and the mandolin

    I seem to recall the engineer who recorded the 8th for broadcast when I played on it (a fine mandolinist himself) told me that Mahler had used five players on the part. Nowadays an inconspicuous microphone on stage is a possibility. But I did the 7th and 8th alone with no mic. Strong playing can get it out there. (That is, if the conductor really wants it heard.)

Similar Threads

  1. Mahler recordings
    By jus in forum Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance
    Replies: 1
    Last: Apr-19-2007, 12:01pm

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •