Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Canīt make it work

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Posts
    545

    Default

    Hi all,
    I have this country band I play mandolin with. Acoustic mandolin works fine (for bluegrass related and slow songs) and so is clean electric mandola for shuffles and swing tune (jazzier playing, clean humbucker tone). Not exactly up to Tiny Moore standards, but hey, I get by.
    The problem are the rock songs (CCR stuff, Sweet Rome Alabama....) I cannot make the thing sound anything like convincing rock electric guitar, particularly for rythm playing. Finally swiched back to acoustic for these tunes which works better (thanks, Sam!) I tried everything including electric octave mandolin but I canīt get that sound. Itīs bad with the rockabilly stuff but even worse with rock. Any sucess stories out there?

    thanks Klaus



    Who am I and if yes, how many?

  2. #2
    Ben Beran Dfyngravity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,459

    Default

    I play rock and metal on my emando, power chords and all. It's all about the pickups and mostly the amp for the "sound".

    As far as chords go, try not to use the E string becuase it tends to make the sound harsh.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Posts
    545

    Default

    Interesting, what I find lacking is
    1)the closer guitar voicing (essential for rythm vamps and riffs) and
    2) Guitar like bending licks

    But I must admit that my setup is far from perfect; neither my current axe nor my amp are anywhere suitable for the genre. I do own an original tubescreamer, though...:D
    Who am I and if yes, how many?

  4. #4
    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    8,076

    Default

    I hope it's not too obvious to just say, well, a mandolin is not a guitar. It is going to sound like a mandolin, not a guitar. I think the electric and the acoustic/electric mando do have a lot to add to rock tunes, but it is a unique contribution, not the same as a guitar.

    If you want an electric guitar sound, the obvious solution is to get an electric guitar. This reminds me of the threads that start a couple of times a year where a guitar player wants to get "that mandolin sound" by either stringing a mando like a guitar or buying a Gibson M-6. That doesn't seem to work either.

  5. #5
    Ben Beran Dfyngravity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,459

    Default

    I am using a 5 string emando which makes a BIG difference in playing chords. Are you using a 4, 5 or 8 string emando? An 8 string is very tough to make it sound like a electric guitar and less like a mandolin while the 4 and 5 strings can get that rockin guitar sound much better...and the 5 string is better than the 4 because you have the low C which really helps...chord wise.

  6. #6
    Registered User clem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Southwestern France
    Posts
    250

    Default

    I agree with Dfyngravity. A 5 string is the best way to get close to electric guitar sound. I use a Rono that is a long scale (a fifth below stand mandolin) and can rock pretty seriously. A lot of the crexdit goes to the POD XT Live, with lots of amp simulations and devices to choose from. Last night I used a Marshall Plexi-45 with some classic compression and it screams! Even my Fender Mandocaster screams. Sustain that would make Santana jealous. And eing a blues guy, I bend all over the place.
    Finally, make sure you are using minimal (e.g power) chord forms an d let the bass and other instruments round out the chords. Then just wait for your solo and KILL.

    Clem

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    319

    Default

    My 4 string Ryder sounds just like a rock guitar when I use distortion. #I use a English Muffin and Big Muff pedal into a Blues Jr. and it rocks!!! #Add a little octave and the sound fuzzes up like crazy in a cool way.



    Will Hardy

    Ithaca Strings Instruments
    Mowry Custom Four String Electric OM (2 years or so)

  8. #8
    Ben Beran Dfyngravity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,459

    Default

    yup power chords all the way.....and the great thing is that since a mandolin is tuned in 5ths all you have to do in most cases is just bar the strings across one fret(power chords are in 5ths) and just add certain notes to change the power chords around a little.

  9. #9
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Outer Spiral Arm, of Galaxy, NW Oregon.
    Posts
    17,103

    Default

    See My P5 eletric mandolin in the classifieds, if you play in a rock/country-rock band full of guitar dooods, who favor E Maj its Ideal as that its root key, position one..
    just an inch longer string length and its string bending tension perfect.
    {i just dont have any jobs [gigs] that justiify my owning it}



    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  10. #10
    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,210

    Default

    The amp only accentuates and exagerates what you've got going with the hands. If you are playing like a bluegrass player, with bluegrassy technique, vocabulary and attack, amping up or fuzzing out is not going to solve your dilemma.

    If it is an instrument tuned up to standard mando tuning, I'll opt for an 8-string. There's a lot of voicings and things on it that are not possible with a longer scale/lower pitched instrument. There's too much stuff using string splitting (getting a fat sound) to make it worth (for me) playing electric 4-string.) There's a whole set of tricks and techniques to compensate for being in the higher register, and to fool the ear into assuming that you are lower than you really are.

    For single string instrument - I'll opt for a 17"-19" 5 string, tuned and octave down GDAEB or GDAEA. #It's a short scale elec guitar in a "tuning".

    If you aren't familiar with rock and blues rhythm guitar figures, you lack a substantial part of the prerequisite knowledge for playing within the genre.

    Personally, I like a power trio situation (bass/drums), but with someone else doing the singing, so I don't have to dumb down the playing behind the (my own) vocals (in some cases). I think I prefer having an instrument with a translucent sound quality (organ, pedal steel) over a guitar as a 4th piece. #Of course if you can find the right gtr player it can be great (ala...QMS, Wishbone Ash, early Fleetwood Mac etc.)

    NH

    Mandocrucian tracks on SoundCloud

    CoMando Guest of the Week 2003 interview of Niles

    "I could be wrong now, but I don't think so!." - Randy Newman ("It's A Jungle Out There")

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Posts
    545

    Default

    Currently I am using the Neubauer emando which you can see in the eye candy section which is a great instrument but essentially it is a jazz box so not the right instrument for harder, more amplified styles. I plug that into an AER acoustic amp which is great for my Kimble but definitely not the way to go for a rock setting either. The Neubauer is tuned DAEB (a whole step above mandola) which complements the guitar nicely. Maybe the key is that allthough I have been exposed to electric guitar a lot and I know what I want to hear, I never really played electric guitar enough to have worked it all out and thous, I donīt know what I am supposed to emulate in my playing (of course, I also want to add more mandolin like concepts because if I donīt, why not play guitar in the first place?).
    I have seriousely been thinking about picking up guitar because insisting on playing the mandolin doesnt make things easier as a giging (giggling?) musician.
    Niles definetely nailed it insofar that applying bluegrass concepts and particularly phrasing to rock just doesnīt work.
    Who am I and if yes, how many?

  12. #12
    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,210

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by
    Maybe the key is that allthough I have been exposed to electric guitar a lot and I know what I want to hear, I never really played electric guitar enough to have worked it all out and thous, I donīt know what I am supposed to emulate in my playing (of course, I also want to add more mandolin like concepts because if I donīt, why not play guitar in the first place?).
    Put electric guitar stuff (solos etc) onto mandolin as close as you can get it sonically (paying special attention to attack, tone, vibrato, slurring etc). You want to at least learn what they are doing before putting "mandolin like concepts" into it. This will occur organically when you look for fretboard solutions to really difficult (on mando) passages and bits - finding something that is more mando fingering friendly but essentially does the same job. #Then again, you may find that the technical stretching you are forced into but putting vocabulary from another instrumen opens up a whole different way of thinking about the fretboard, and you'll decide, as you do it more and more and acquire those alternate skills, that it really isn't "too hard" for what you can add to the palette.

    When I learned the Hendrix opening for "Little Wing" (on mando), it took months and months of playing to get that. #It's pretty much 90% of what he did - a few bits had to receive some editting for a playable alternative. #Some really "awkward" position shifts and passages, but what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger, right? #Now, years later, it doesn't seem that big a deal as it's all gotten integrated into the way I play. (Hint: trying to restrict yourself to "normal mandolin fingerings" is keeping your mind halfway closed.)

    Of course, it you really want the strengths of guitar backup grooves, you could play a mandola/guitar doubleneck, and switch between them for the best sonic outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    I have seriousely been thinking about picking up guitar because insisting on playing the mandolin doesnt make things easier as a giging (giggling?) musician.
    It'll eliminate a lot of instrument prejudice (the Charley Pride syndrome) you deal with as a mando player. I won't even use the "M" word if I've got the electric 5-string out among electric players. "I've got it in a Keith Richards tuning" or "Ry Cooder danelectro set-up" - any bs that will provide a plausible (face saving, for them) explanation about why your chord shapes and such are 'different'. #Use the "M word", and someone is sure to suggest playing "Rocky Top" and, presto, you've been pigeonholed right back into the hillbilly ghetto.

    (Guitar players tend to get real defensive if you can convincingly rip out something like "Pride & Joy", "Stone Free", or Santana, etc. on a mando. Well, they get rattled if a woman guitar player does the same.)

    NH

    Mandocrucian tracks on SoundCloud

    CoMando Guest of the Week 2003 interview of Niles

    "I could be wrong now, but I don't think so!." - Randy Newman ("It's A Jungle Out There")

  13. #13
    Ben Beran Dfyngravity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,459

    Default

    I agree with you there mandocrucian, the acoustic and electric are def. two different beasts. Learning solos from electric guitar on the emando can be hard becuase of the fingering, so yeah you absolutely have to get use to that. I am kind of furtunate in that I started off my music playing on the electric guitar so I have sort of an advantage in learning emando material.

    You know a good way to get into the mood and it will help you hear how you want to play is to listen to a bunch of music like you want to play before you pick up the emando to play. You want your brain to listen to electric stuff, you'll be suprised in that you will probably play a little different that if you were to listen to acoustic music.

  14. #14
    Is there a "talent" knob? Christian McKee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    704

    Default

    Niles is on to something with his indication to work on pick attack. I used to play (acoustically) a lot with a guy who came up as a metal player, and has since branched out to mostly focus on acoustic guitar, and his pick attack would make fiddle tunes sound like metal solos.
    Aside from that, and learning to use pedals well (not an easy thing,) what I most focus on when playing electric rock mandolin, is increasing the lyricism of my lines, something we don't normally associate with the mandolin. That also helps me out quite a bit...

    Christian
    Christian McKee

    Member, The Big North Duo
    Musical Director, The Oregon Mandolin Orchestra

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Posts
    545

    Default

    I find it really interesting how ten years of (mostly) bluegrass mandolin playing erased practically all knowledge that I had when I was still a (admittedly bad) electric guitar player. That constant 8notes shuffle thing causes a real train wreck with any blues-related rock tune and monroe style is great but not ALWAYS the way to go...
    Who am I and if yes, how many?

Similar Threads

  1. Does anyone make...
    By Daniel Nestlerode in forum Equipment
    Replies: 5
    Last: May-31-2007, 3:45pm
  2. What'ch'all make of this?
    By musicofanatic in forum Vintage Instruments
    Replies: 6
    Last: Jan-24-2007, 4:47pm
  3. What do y'all make of this?
    By Jim Broyles in forum General Mandolin Discussions
    Replies: 7
    Last: May-13-2006, 7:24pm
  4. how does this work
    By ira in forum Song and Tune Projects
    Replies: 11
    Last: Jun-07-2004, 5:39pm
  5. Looking to make upgrades...
    By ironlionzion in forum General Mandolin Discussions
    Replies: 13
    Last: Apr-13-2004, 2:49pm

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •