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Thread: Loar Picture of the Day

  1. #76
    Registered User kudzugypsy's Avatar
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    there is a really good photo in the fiddle method book 'Bluegrass Fiddle Styles' that shows Monroe with Curly Cline and Jimmy Martin circa around 1952 that would have been when Sonny was with Bill - in this pic, you can see astounding evidence of a massive scraping of the finish far worse than what i ever saw at later dates - i'll try to scan the pic, but he did a good one on it for sure, there was little finish left - it wasnt raw wood, and its a black and white, but you can see a huge area of finish gone.

  2. #77
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Jim Hilburn @ Aug. 16 2006, 11:58)
    But an "overspray" in the early 50's would have meant about a 1/16" of lacquer. I'm sure everyones seen Gibson's from that era with stress cracks in them. You can see that the instrument is entombed in thick lacquer.
    That's exactly my point. I don't see any evidence of that type of refin or overspray on the instrument in any picture nor from the numerous time that I have held and examined the mando. They would not have oversprayed just the top, and even if they did it would be thick thick thick.

    In summary, my opinion is that there is no visual evidence to support the generally accepted stories. Something is amiss.

    Also, If it did have a neck problem repaired, then it failed again. I'm pretty sure I remember Randy fixing the neck in about 1972. I'll call him and get the story
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  3. #78
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    One thing that I either forgot or never noticed is that Charlie replaced the overlay during the vandalism repair. This one is much more correct than the ealier one was.
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  4. #79
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    It was standard practice at Gibson (and most other manufacturers) in that day to refinish instruments in repair. The idea was to make them look new again and gain the pleasure of the owner. Vintage value was not a consideration at that time. It has only been recently that practice has been stopped and the originality and value of the instrument has become the more important issue than its looks.

    I have seen and played this mandolin quite a few times. It was in our shop for restringing, set up, whatever for as long as I've been with Charlie. There was still varnish on the mandolin that would likely have been sanded off had the factory refinished it. Secondly, the color was right for the era. If it has been refinished the color would have been different. It is possible a light coat of lacquer was sprayed over part of it many years ago, but there was not much. In the twenties and early thirties it was not uncommon to have a mandolin sprayed over with lacquer on top of the varnish when it was at the factory for repair.

    I have heard many rumors about why Mr. Bill scraped the name off, but I have no idea which one is true. I do know the mandolin well enough to doubt the refinishing theory. I guess the only one who really knows is Mr. Bill, and as far as I know, he has not been talking about it for many years.
    Have a Great Day!
    Joe Vest

  5. #80
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    If it was refinished or oversprayed, it's a good thing it was not done in the '60, else it may have come back with the atomic red sunburst.
    Thanks for the insight Joe.

  6. #81

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    Interesting. Until these current discussions, I have never heard that refinnishing was part of the equation. IMHO, I agree with Darryl, in that it has never looked refinned at all to me.
    I don't think that ever happened, but, that's just my opinion.
    Other problems, yes, something disatisfied him, maybe refret, or whatever, but, Bill was a prickly man....

  7. #82

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    I first learned about mandolins, bluegrass, and Bill Monroe in the early 70's from a great guitar and mandolin player and collector who was in the Denver area in those days named is Doug McKee. That's where I first heard the story of the re-finish or overspray leading to the scrape-off.
    If Gibson pissed him off, I can see the name removal but why would he attack an otherwise good finish? It seems like the only logical explanation.
    However this is just conjecture on my part.

  8. #83
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    Logic may not fit here. If something EVER gets said as a possibility it soon seems to become a supposed fact.

  9. #84
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    Mr. Bill was never very concerned about the appearance of his mandolin, and rareley...especially in the earlier years...about how it played. He was more concerned about the tone. His mandolin was often in dire need of set up and cleaning. If something physical was wrong, as long as it sounded good and he could physically play it, he did not care about much. Playability was not his greatest concern either. His hands were extremely strong and he was used to playing it with near impossible action. In his later years he liked it when we would set it up and put the action at a near reasonable level. However, when we got it back several months later the action would be raised through the roof again. I don't think he would have cared if it was refinished or not. He may have been much more concerned about the way he felt he was treated or respected by someone more than the appearance. Of course, that is just speculation but it's as good a story as anyone's .
    Have a Great Day!
    Joe Vest

  10. #85
    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    I don't recall anyone saying it was totally refinished. Bill asked it be refinished and then noted they did not do that to it. However a light lacquer overspray does make more sense and would explain what he scraped off. I don't think anyone is doubting he did scrape something off and if it retained most of the original varnish finish it was not that. Darryl, ask Randy Wood about the April 25 Loar that Herschel got and it had a light factory overspray in lacquer. Randy was able to remove it without damaging the varnish. Randy could tell you just how light of an oversray it was. Also several Loars have had lacquer oversprays. Common practice prewar but not so sure about post war however there were probably a few old timers still left that knew the difference between Loar varnish and lacquer in 1952.

  11. #86
    Registered Mandolin User mandopete's Avatar
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    So here's a fairly famous picture of Mr. Bill that is dated 1989 and I assume that this was taken after the restoration. The finish here looks pretty good in my opinion.
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  12. #87

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    Why is it brown in the center? It looks almost like some brown stain was added and then worn in the picking area below the strings.

  13. #88
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Here is one of the better pics of the mando prior to any restoration. I forget the date of this Frank Ray photo, but it is very late 60's or early 70's. Note that the original sunburst is retained under the strings from just above the bridge to just short of the fingerboard. It also goes out to about 3/8" from the F-hole. This is the typical July 9 pattern and color
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  14. #89
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Here's our bud CD working on the back cracks
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  15. #90
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    This photo was in 1982. There is not much difference other than a bit more wear and the addition of the first peghead restoration
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  16. #91
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    In this photo you can clearly see varnish based on the way it burnishes off. I had to fench polish repair a spot like that on mine on the same bout
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  17. #92
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    a better look at it
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  18. #93
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    It is very clear in this photo tha 73987 has an abnormally wide grained top for a Loar.
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  19. #94
    Hester Mandolins Gail Hester's Avatar
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    Incredible photos Darryl, thank you.
    Gail Hester

  20. #95

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    It wasn't brown stain, just dirt.

  21. #96
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Here is one I may not have posted before. This is previous to vandalism, mid 80's maybe
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  22. #97
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    "Later he accepts their free offer for repairs and in Sept. 1980 Dick Doan headed up the team to replace the scroll with a totally new veneer headstock, new tuners and a new fretboard"

    Here is a cool little recording made on November 3, 1980 at the Softrock Cafe in Vancouver, B.C....

    "Didn't Greg Rich have the original peghead veneer/overlay from #73987?"

    I have a pic of it in a frame that I am not supposed to know how I got... #

    "It is very clear in this photo tha 73987 has an abnormally wide grained top for a Loar. "

    And, it's miss-matched with a knot-shadow...
    Kills the theory of AAAAAAAAA wood, no?

  23. #98
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    a pic of what?

  24. #99
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    Great Story...thanks Spruce, for posting!

  25. #100

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    Charlie told me around two years ago that Monroe's Loar was oversprayed with lacquer. How much of it, I didn't ask.
    Chris Stanley



    Chris

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