New Trillium Cittern

[Mandobar]

i met bob abrams tuesday morning and picked up my new cittern. black walnut with a redwood top. absolutely stunning and the sound is deep and sooooooooo resonant.

bob is truly a fine builder and i would recommend his instruments to anyone- those who envy sobell owners need only play one of bob's new octaves and his citterns to stave off any SAS. i know from where i speak as i own a sobell zouk. i am seriously thinking about selling my sobell now as i cannot put the trillium down.

kudos to bob!!!!! (he's a swell guy too!!!)

i will post some pics this evening.

[otterly2k]

High praise, indeed, Mary... pics pleez!!

also...for anyone with $ burning a hole in your pocket, Bob has listed a new OM (also redwood top) in the classifieds....whee doggie!

I had a Trillium for a while, and it was an awesome instrument...If it hadn't been too long a scale for me, I would certainly have kept it. Made a judgement call when deciding on a custom build, and I have no regrets with the Dean, but the other top option was to ask Bob to make me a shorter scale Tril'.... ah! the path not traveled...

[steve V. johnson]

Congratulations on your new Trillium! Please do post some pics?

I wrote to Bob A and confessed that I wasn't making a "serious offer," and asked if he'd put a pic into his ad in the Classifieds. I once had the Tril' that Karen refers to, just before she got it. It wasn't just right for me, either, but it was a truly splendid instrument. I'm damn picky, I know... <G> .

I think that I'd like cedar/walnut better than the spruce/mahogany that I experienced, so I'd love to see what this one is like.

Again, congrats, and best wishes to you and to Trillium Bob!

(Psssst.... now... about that Sobell.... <GGG&gt

stv

[Mandobar]

i have played both those instruments in the classifieds. the walnut sitka is a great combo. the octave has me tempted.

the trilliums that i have played over the last year or so have been superb instruments. i've had the opportunity to play some older ones. these are heads and tails over the older instruments. especially the citterns. bob has made some improvements that make these the best octaves/citterns that i have played in a long while.

to top it all off the octave mando has a James tailpiece!!!!

[Shana Aisenberg]

Mary, congratulations on the new Trillium cittern. I've had my Trillium octave mando/zouk since '98 and absolutely love it. Bob's instruments sound wonderful and keep getting better as you play it in. What tuning are you using on the new cittern? And what's this about parting with a Sobell? Email me if you're selling it

Seth

[Mandobar]

seth, not sure what tuning i am going to stick with.........still feeling around. as for the sobell, the other half said to me tonight- "i think we should hold onto it for a while longer." for some odd reason he has a yearning to learn to play it. so selling it is on hold for now. it does not keep me from yearning for a trillium octave. but if you are going to be at bob's sunday i will schlep it along for you to see.

[Mandobar]

here are some studio shots of the cittern:

[steve V. johnson]

Wow, that's gorgeous, thanks for the pix!

So, does the redwood/walnut OM look like yours? I see that the fretboard looks to be the same width all the way up. Does the redwood/walnut OM have the same width all the way up?

And you wrote, " bob has made some improvements that make these the best octaves/citterns that i have played in a long while."

Great tease... <GG> What are those "improvements," eh? Do tell... <GG>

Thanks,

stv

[Mandobar]

steve, yes the octave mando looks like my cittern ( i was tempted to buy them as a pair). he has some pics of the two instruments for sale that he will be posting on the ads, but feel free to e-mail him for pics. i can assure you that the instruments are gorgeous. i will have to check to see if the fretboard is the same size all the way up. i hadn't noticed. as for the improvements, well, the citterns have a rod through the body from block to block that stabilize the neck to the body (many sobells that i have seen have cracks on the sides of the fretboard where the neck meets the body). you get a lot more resonance with that rod in there. the fit and finish on these instruments is exquisite.

david surette played his barely days old trillium cittern at the opening night concert for the march mandolin festival we have in new hampshire every year. the sound was enormous and it was like watching hendrix play. the sound just jumped out at you. it was the most amazing thing i've heard in a long while.

[Shana Aisenberg]

Mary,

That cittern looks wonderful! Not sure if we'll make it to Bob's on Sunday, we're teaching at Fiddleheads all weekend, if we get home early enough we might.

Seth

[Furnman]

I had a Trillium for a while, and it was an awesome instrument...If it hadn't been too long a scale for me, I would certainly have kept it. #

I once had the Tril' that Karen refers to, just before she got it. #It wasn't just right for me, either, but it was a truly splendid instrument.

It's working for me, so far! I think it has a happy home for a while to come. Thanks, Karen and Steve!

Scott

[otterly2k]

Glad to hear it, Scott! and glad it has a happy home.

Stv... Bob seems to have heard your request, and posted pics to the Classifed ads...

KE

[steve V. johnson]

Mary, thanks for the new info! The rod thingie sounds really interesting...

Maybe it allows lighter construction in some areas of the instrument...? I'd definitely like to learn more about it.
Another thing that seemed characteristic of the Trilliums and some of the Fylde models is a big (at least large-looking) heel/neck joint, and as I recall, Abrams had a picture on the website of a hole through it for a strap string. That was
a pretty interesting feature.

Scott, that's wonderful news! Hooray! I really enjoyed that instrument. It's very instructive to really work out with an instrument that is excellent in so many ways and still then have to figure out why it just ain't right for me somehow.
So that one taught me a lot of good things and I'm grateful for all that.

Thanks for the heads-up, Karen, I hadn't looked over there today. Oboy, pix!!! Woohoo! <GG>

stv

[Mandobar]

i see the octave mando is now on hold. anyone want to fess up?

[rclepper]

I notice that the 5-course Trillium is no longer in the New Instruments ad section. Does that mean it has a new home now?

Randy

[Sam price]

That is a very beautiful cittern. COngratulations.

I am really hoping to build a guitar/cittern soon; do you mind telling me what scale length it is, please?

[Mandobar]

bob told me that it is a "guitar scale length". i am not sure, but that is 25.4 or thereabouts.

[Yavor]

Golly, I know this post is 4 months later, but reading
this string has gotten me REALLY excited about tomorrow's FedEx truck coming.
Yup, a redwood/walnut Tril OM is on it's way here. I LOVE my Petersen,
but am ready to be a convert.
I play only eastern European gypsy music on the OM. I find
it works perfectly in this genre'.

Thanks for making me smile!

Bob Nagy

Petersen OMII
Moon Cittern

[Mandobar]

bob,

that om is the sister to mine. they were built at the same time. i got to play that om- absolutely wonderful.

[Yavor]

Hi Mary-
Yup, she is here..and I figured it was related to yours.
Well, such a "complex" sound. I will actually have time today to sit with it and take a good listen. My Petersen is what I play daily, so I have to sort of reset my pre-conditioned ears
to "hear" the Trillium with a fresh palette. It is a very different animal. Build quality could not be better. Scale is perfect for me. Action, neck and intonation are perfect.
I would call it a "recording instrument" rather than a "performing" instrument, as it's voice is slightly swallowed compared to standard flat-tops. Live, against one other instrument, fine. You'd have to mic it to prevail in a larger mix. I've found the Petersens to be the loudest overall and I can hold my own against an accordion and violin with it. Sure, it has a "simpler" sound though.

So, with the Redwood top, do you think there will be a break-in? It's a rare top material and I have no info on it.

At this level of craftsmanship, you are really talking about a "relationship" with the instrument. I'll just have to sit on the couch holding her for a while today...ha!

I'm still in the approval period..but I think it's staying here. Any input would be appreciated.

Bob Nagy
Hot Springs

[Mandobar]

bob,

i think the more you play it the better it will sound. i am not sure that there is as much break in period with redwood as spruce varities- although rick davis who used to be the head of the ASIA luthiers group told me that it is more forgiving in high humidity.

i was tempted to buy this one also when bob showed it to me. i think it is the perfect size. if you tire of it let me know.....right now i have a peterson level 3 22". i like my trillium cittern so much that i am about to return my sobell zouk to it's original owner (as part of a trade).

[steve V. johnson]

My Crump's cedar top has changed... well... the whole instrument has, really. There's a lot of stuff that folks say about comparing cedar and spruce tops... I read all I could and ordered cedar... I can't really quantify a lot of what folks say, but here's what I have noticed.

The cedar top makes a "thump," a transient that is very different to my ear, and I really like it. I reckon that the rosewood b/s complementing the top has something to do with that. The one thing that's said most, I think, is that cedar tops start off sounding more mature, and then change less, than spruce tops... Well, mine started out good, but I do think it's changed a good bit. it seems odd to me, but the trebles seem to have come forward more over time, while the mids and bass have changed less.

The cedar seems to have a really nice -texture- to the tone. I don't think I've been able to overdrive the top, but playing from mid- to hard on it has a timbre that is very different. Not quite pristine, but not 'distorted,' just ... textural. Another term that I've heard a bunch about cedar tops is "warm," which often means that the highs are not really forward, or are rolled off a bit. In my Crump, the treble attack is not usually the first thing folks notice unless I play it with a light touch. I'd say that with most of the cedar topped instruments I've heard up close, the midrange is usually a bit more prominent, with the high and low overtones following.

Now... Bob's Trillium instruments are a very different design philosophy from Phil Crump's, so I don't think that the two will ever sound really similar to one another. Bob's are a bit heavier and the ones I've seen have had harder finishes, and I think I'd expect the effect of the cedar top to be less pronounced in Bob's instruments than in Phil's...

The Martin guitar guys used to say, "This is the worst this instrument will ever be..." and I think that probably applies to your new Trill', too. I've been around several, but no new ones, and those were all really loud. In a very good way. The one that I had and Karen had was almost too loud for me. When I played it in session, I really had to lighten up.

I'm very happy with the Crump's cedar top, and when I dream about other instruments, I think more often about cedar topped ones than I do spruce. I really like the "warmth" and the textures that I hear from 'em.

stv

[Patrick Bjorndal]

Golly, I know this post is 4 months later, but reading
this string has gotten me REALLY excited about tomorrow's FedEx truck coming.
Yup, a redwood/walnut Tril OM is on it's way here. I LOVE my Petersen,
but am ready to be a convert.
I play only eastern European gypsy music on the OM. I find
it works perfectly in this genre'.

Thanks for making me smile!

Bob Nagy

Petersen OMII
Moon Cittern

So Bob, are you thinking about sending the Petersen to a new home? I would be interested. I have a Petersen Zook and really think I need a OM to match. Not sure the wife will agree though.

Patrick

[Yavor]

Patrick-
Well, in a word - no. I've had the Tril 2 days now and I have yet to really bond with her. I know this is in total contradiction to the accepted wisdom out there, but I still like the Petersens best. I play with an accordion and violin player and there is no way I could be heard with the Tril.
It has a more resonant and richer sound, but a much softer voice. It is perfect for recording sessions, or mic'ed performance.

Tell you the truth, I'd buy another Petersen (II/III) used if I saw it come up. This Tril is only a few months old, so it will break in a bit but it won't stray too much from it's sound now. Normally, you get a little cleaner sound in the lower-midrange area, some volume increase,more sustain and slightly less sheen overall with time. It settles in and has a more confident sound overall. I attribute this to the still movable molecules of lignin which hold the cellulose together in the wood. They line up in the paths of least resistance along the standing sine waves caused by the string vibration. (now I'm off track!)

So, Petersen? Three thumbs up. I'll own her forever.

Bob
Hot Springs

[Yavor]

Mary- Didn't see your post till now. This is all big fun for me. What a lovely group to be a part of...the OM gang.

You still have a Petersen III ehh? I can only imagine what the Tril Cittern sounds like. It think the "rod" thing probably makes it significantly different from the standard OM. The Tril OM sounds like a refined coloratura and the Petersen like a young brash tenor.

I Just love trading around instruments, so let's stay in contact! I'm going to open up a new question here.

In tuning CBOM instruments, I have always "stagger tuned" my
courses. The first string is flat of the note and the second string -sharp. I'd say I do less than a quarter tone shift.
The technical term for the harmonic generation of two mixing fundamental tones is Heretodyne. These two tones generate the sum and the difference of their original frequencies making for a much richer tonal pallet.
Have I been doing what everyone already does out there...?


Bob
Hot Springs