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Thread: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

  1. #1
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    Default Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    This is my latest 4th generation flat top mandolin. This is the culmination of 12 years of work improving the sound of the flat top mandolin. It all started from the fact that it is possible to make amazing sounding flat top guitars, so it must be possible to make amazing sounding flat top mandolins, i.e. as good as or better than any carved top mandolin. I used the principles outlined in the Guitar design book by Australian Luthiers Trevor Gore and Gerard Gilet. Mandolins vibrate like guitars, and this mandolin is built like a classical guitar. Lightweight top, heavy back, and fan braced. The braces are reinforced with carbon fiber, without the carbon fiber it would not work. I have now made 7 4th generation mandolins, and this is the one I am most pleased with in terms of the looks and the sound. I have made an Ebony mandolin that is about the same level in sound, just different, but the eye candy is not so nice. Woods are the same as what was used in the Lyon and Healy mandolins. Red Spruce top, Birdseye Maple back and sides, mahogany neck. It has ebony bindings and the tailpiece cover is engraved ebony. It was deliberately made to look similar to a Lyon and Healy asymmetric 2 point, but with the long scale length. Strings are Thomastic. Schaller GrandTune machine heads. It certainly does sound as good as any of my oval hole carved top mandolins which is really quite remarkable.

    Sound clips -
    https://petercoombe.com/Sound/classi...-inchiquin.mp3
    https://petercoombe.com/Sound/classi...ttop/begsi.mp3
    https://petercoombe.com/Sound/classi.../home-rule.mp3
    https://petercoombe.com/Sound/classi...er-fellows.mp3

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    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
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  3. #2
    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    That is a very beautiful instrument, Peter. The sound clips are great too. There seems to be lots of sustain across the range and clear distinctions of each note.
    I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. - Eric Morecambe

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOldBores

  4. #3
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Beautiful! You really nailed the L&H aesthetic.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Interesting tailpiece. Ebony instead of metal.
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    A couple of things I failed to mention that you can't get from the sound clips. My 4th generation flat tops are really loud. This mandolin has a big dynamic range, but the Ebony one has a absolutely massive dynamic range. You can play them softly and get the beautiful sound, but also really lay in and they don't distort. That comes about because of the low mass of the top combined with a back with high mass. It is like a see saw with one person heavy, the other person light. What person moves the most when the see saw is balanced? The light person of course, and that is what is happening. Probably because the top is producing most of the sound, they project forwards like an F sound hole mandolin, not like a typical Gibson oval hole mandolin. You can clearly hear how directional they are if you pick the strings and rotate the mandolin around at the same time in your hands. They do sound different from my carved top mandolins, but the main difference is in the bass. Mids and treble are near enough identical, but the bass has a different sound quality, not better or worse, just different. Gore and Gilet call it a "dead back" system, but the back still does contribute something to the sound, just much less than most other flat top mandolins. The whole design is much more complicated than that, there is no magic bullet, there are a number of things that need to come together, and it is not so easy to make that happen every time.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
    http://www.petercoombe.com

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Peter, you mentioned that you are using a fan bracing on these. Are you able to induce an arch into the top with your bracing? If so, how much?
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Tucker the Mandolinist TuckerTheMandolinist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    This looks BEAUTIFUL! I would love to play it
    "has to be either place making, place finding, or place adapting. or the secret 4th option of course, which is to be miserable"
    -Bill Wurtz

  10. #8
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Peter, you mentioned that you are using a fan bracing on these. Are you able to induce an arch into the top with your bracing? If so, how much?
    Yes they do have an induced arch. Top and Back both have a 15ft arch.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
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  12. #9
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Hey Peter, I hope I am not hijacking your thread. I have a real affection for L&H mandolins.
    When I worked for a professional violin shop in NC years ago, we were gifted an American Conservatory bell shaped tiple. I used the body shape and came up with my own interpretation of a flat top and back mandolin. I used a style B headstock design but slotted and used Australian Blackwood for the back and sides.

    Just thought you might like to see it. I am a big fan of your work.
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    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Tucker the Mandolinist TuckerTheMandolinist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Charles, do you have a sound sample for your mandos as well?
    "has to be either place making, place finding, or place adapting. or the secret 4th option of course, which is to be miserable"
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  15. #11
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Hey Tucker, I do not. I sold that mandolin seven years ago before moving to Florida.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Charles, I just ran across drawings of a "Hamburger Cithrinchen" aka Bell Cittern in Kevin Coates "Geometry, Proportions, and the Art of Lutherie". Thought you might be interested.
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    Kelley Mandolins Skip Kelley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    That is beautiful Peter. Nice work on Lyon and Healy design especially the tailpiece cover.

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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Wow, beautiful and sounds amazing!

  20. #15
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Beautiful work, Peter!

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    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Just a spectacular looking (and sounding) instrument. Congrats!
    --------------------------------
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  22. #17
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Absolutely beautiful Peter! I love it. I've always loved that asymmetrical L&H shape!!!

    Charlie let me play his carved top version of the same bell shaped instrument when I met him in FLA last year, it was awesome indeed! Wish I had had more time to play it!!!
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Gorgeous!
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  24. #19
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    That is beautiful Peter. Nice work on Lyon and Healy design especially the tailpiece cover.
    Thank you. The tailpiece cover has been a long time coming but I like the result. It took hours and hours of laborious work to get it right, but now I can make them fairly easily. I was going to make them out of brass and get them nickel plated, but after making one out of Ebony decided to stick with the Ebony, I actually like the look of the Ebony better, and it certainly is unique. Some years ago I did get some brass covers made up by a silversmith who outsourced the engraving to a CNC shop, but the engraving on the Ebony covers that I can make now is much finer. Outsourcing sometimes sucks. The silversmith took 12 months to deliver 10 tailpiece covers and I did not want to go through all that again.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
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  25. #20
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Current state of the art flat top mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by peter.coombe View Post
    A couple of things I failed to mention that you can't get from the sound clips. My 4th generation flat tops are really loud. This mandolin has a big dynamic range, but the Ebony one has a absolutely massive dynamic range. You can play them softly and get the beautiful sound, but also really lay in and they don't distort. That comes about because of the low mass of the top combined with a back with high mass. It is like a see saw with one person heavy, the other person light. What person moves the most when the see saw is balanced? The light person of course, and that is what is happening. Probably because the top is producing most of the sound, they project forwards like an F sound hole mandolin, not like a typical Gibson oval hole mandolin. You can clearly hear how directional they are if you pick the strings and rotate the mandolin around at the same time in your hands. They do sound different from my carved top mandolins, but the main difference is in the bass. Mids and treble are near enough identical, but the bass has a different sound quality, not better or worse, just different. Gore and Gilet call it a "dead back" system, but the back still does contribute something to the sound, just much less than most other flat top mandolins. The whole design is much more complicated than that, there is no magic bullet, there are a number of things that need to come together, and it is not so easy to make that happen every time.
    I can affirm what Peter is saying. I spent two hours with him last 1 March. I came away with putting a deposit on one of his 4th generation mandolins having played just about everything in his stable. They have a beautiful sound whether played soft or low and they are really loud mandolins with a beautiful balanced tone.

    Peter, why you don't mine up with the Macassar Ebony back for show.
    Nic Gellie

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