I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.
I think you may be right about it being modal. I also think it may be something to do with notation. The B note would be flat in the key of Dm (or F), yet the transcriber put it in C to make the B note in Part B natural, then flatting it a bit later. I wonder whether it would have been wiser to make the key notation Dm (F) and then sharp that B note (ie, make it natural) when needed. I dunno; glad it's not my job.
This is why I ask the experts. Sometimes shrugging of shoulders or throwing up of hands is the only reasonable answer.
But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller
Furthering Mandolin Consciousness
Finders Keepers, my duo with the astoundingly talented and versatile Patti Rothberg. Our EP is finally done, and available! PM me, while they last!
Here's an oldie but goodie... Thanks For The Listen!
Sound comparison of two ouds I built (spruce vs cedar) with a short piece by Mansour Nariman:
Which is your favourite? Spruce or cedar?
I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.
Some of the people at Labyrinth Music Workshop based in Crete will know, or Labyrinth Online.
If you haven't come across them already, check out the Spanish multi-instrumentalist Efren Lopez, or Italian Peppe Frana.
https://www.facebook.com/LabyrinthOnline/
https://www.facebook.com/labyrinthmusicalworkshop
https://www.facebook.com/Efren.Lopez.1972
https://www.facebook.com/peppe.frana
David A. Gordon
Here's my band Mystery Beans playing a couple songs at the Irie Bean open mic in Austin, TX. We play original country, folk, and bluegrass, plus some favorite covers! In this clip, we're playing Tom T. Hall's "How I Got To Memphis" and our original song "First Rodeo." Please enjoy! And if you do, you can find more of our tunes over on Instagram.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/V7JYYebWUtqZv5DB9
oops, need to post this with the video it references.
Gold Tone Musical Instruments
https://www.banjocrazy.com/
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/user/strumstering/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz_...zFyY08g/videos
Gold Tone Musical Instruments
https://www.banjocrazy.com/
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/user/strumstering/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz_...zFyY08g/videos
Here’s a video I made for the virtual 2020 Florida Fiddlers Convention. I’m playing an original tune, “Snake In the Henhouse.” Hope everyone enjoys it.
https://billpaine.com
https://flafiddlers.wordpress.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYv...Vq254kZPIl_RiQ
Stormy Morning Orchestra
My YouTube Channel
"Mean Old Timer, He's got grey hair, Mean Old Timer he just don't care
Got no compassion, thinks its a sin
All he does is sit around an play the Mandolin"
I too liked the cedar better, and felt that it had a fuller, richer sound, although I quite liked the spruce before I heard the cedar. That's the opinion of an old hard-of-hearing guy who hasn't yet put his hearing aids in, for what that's worth. (Your studio should be moth-free after shaving all that cedar.)
Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
"I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.
Here's a clip of our band The Knob Creek Incident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx97cmVUL8E
We few, we happy few.
"Pishdaramad-e Bayat-e Tork" پیشدرامد بیات ترک by Abolhasan Saba
Last edited by Dusepo; Dec-30-2021 at 6:51am.
I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.
Great sound, Jo, and so good to hear you playing a longer piece which showcases both the instrument and the playing.
I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. - Eric Morecambe
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOldBores
I am curious about the "Western" sound of this composer born and trained (on violin) in Iran. The scalar passages and sequences could be from a German baroque composer. Is this fusion effect typical of his music, just this particular piece, or is it an effect of modern times with radio (early 1900's) and other media connections spreading stylistic tendencies to previously localized and indigenous music? So often I hear people say "Their music sounds just like ours" without awareness of the influences of colonialism and universal media. In my field of choral music there is a tendency to emphasize so-called "universals" that are really the result of European and American cultural influences (if not outright colonialism).
Many of your recorded selections have a clearly Middle Eastern sound, which is why this piece struck me as unusually Western.
p.s. Looking forward to my 2022 Christmas present, your 5 course cittern/mandocello!
I don't really think I'm qualified to answer this question, and you'd probably get a better answer from an Iranian, but here's some analysis which may help...
The Western 'major' mode is actually used throughout the world. In Persian music it's known as Dastgah-e Mahur (though it develops in a different way) and in Arabic music it's known as Maqam Ajam, and many other cultures also have something similar. This piece is in a mode called Avaz-e Bayat-e Tork, which does have some similarities to major, but features a quarter tone (called koron and notated with a square p-like symbol), which gives it a different quality. There is also a section halfway through the piece which has a second quarter tone, before switching back towards the end.
The tonic (Or to be specific the 'shahed' which is slightly different) here is F, and so Bayat-e Tork here is F, G, A, Bb, C, D E koron. In that short alternating section, the A is flattened to A koron, and in the higher octave the E koron is flattened to Eb sometimes.
The Dastgah (or more accuractely sub-Dastgah of Shur, hence Avaz) of Bayat-e Tork dates back to at least the 19th century, when the radif was composed, and probably is much older than that. The radif is a collection of non-rhythmic melodies which are used as a basis for composition and improvisation. It may originate from medieval Persia or the Sassanid Empire, since many of the melodies in the radif do.. Since Bayat-e Tork was previously also known as Bayat-e Zand, some theorise it comes from the time of the Zand Dynasty (1751–1794).
As for the violin, that was introduced into Iran in the 18th or 19th century from France (Iran had good relations with France at this time and Farsi also got a lot of loanwords from French during this time).
So, whilst there may be some western influence, how much is difficult to say. In case it's helpful, here's the sheet music:
(although this piece was probably originally written for violin, this sheet music is for tar and setar, so sadly it's not immediately transferrable to mandolin, or even to oud, so I did transpose some bits into a higher octave)
And here's a zarbi version (slightly different to the pishdaramad version I played but same melody) played by Iranian musicians for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fVSFoQZxcE
I'm looking forward to building your instrument when I get to that place on my waiting list .
Last edited by Dusepo; Dec-30-2021 at 6:47pm.
I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.
I think your answer demonstrates that you are quite qualified. I am vaguely familiar with some Middle Eastern and Indian-karnatic scales and their differences from Major-minor. But not to the level you have explained here; thank you.
jim
This is Frankie Rodgers Ookpik Waltz. Thanks for the Listen!
I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.
a sampling of some of my electric mandos
Stormy Morning Orchestra
My YouTube Channel
"Mean Old Timer, He's got grey hair, Mean Old Timer he just don't care
Got no compassion, thinks its a sin
All he does is sit around an play the Mandolin"
I posted this in the Song-a-Week social group a couple of weeks ago. I'll link it here as well to give more exposure to this nice tune by Simon Wascher. It's called Mazurka Schloss Freiberg. The composer seems to be a hurdy-gurdy player based in Austria. I like the melody very much.
"Rasa Sayang" (traditional song from Malaysia and Indonesia)
I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.
Here's a couple Friday morn'n tunes. Thanks for the Listen!
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