Bowlbacks of Note

**vkioulaphides** · Oct-12-2006, 3:05pm

Ehm... by "nice" price, do you mean for the buyer OR for the seller?

But, of course, it IS surely a nice instrument!

*sounds of digging in pockets, jingling change, loose coinage*

**trebleclef528** · Oct-12-2006, 3:28pm

Hi Vic... well I guess I mean nice price for the seller although I would imagine that some of the (rich)Vinaccia fanatics might think it's nice price.. or perhaps one of our Taiwanese inlay artists might decide to enhance the inlay work..AAARGH!
Best wishes
Ian

**vkioulaphides** · Oct-12-2006, 4:57pm

Originally Posted by

" ...perhaps one of our Taiwanese inlay artists might decide to enhance the inlay work..."

NOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!

**etbarbaric** · Oct-12-2006, 10:24pm

Brilliantly put Victor!

:-)

Eric

ps - That's one of the most violinistic scrolls I think I've seen on a mando-thingy. I'm usually put off by such things (as I prefer the violinistic variety) but that one is very nicely turned.

**Jim Garber** · Oct-13-2006, 8:32pm

Here is a link to that mandola. Just wondering what the scale length of this one is. Is it mandoliola or an octave mandola?

The violin scroll is esp interesting. I have never seen one on a Vinaccia before. Could easily be inspiration for Lyon & Healy.

Jim

**brunello97** · Oct-13-2006, 10:17pm

Jim,

Was it L+H responsible for the scroll heads often seen with the Brandt label? Did they show up with any other US makers/brands?

Not that I have 5000L around but that is a pretty great looking instrument. On its way to Japan as the bidding stands right now.

I'll let Brian and Dave struggle with duplicating the bowlback. I think I'm going to build one of those cool wooden (coffin) cases this weekend. The latches, locks, hinges, handle-all are great.

Mick

**Eugene** · Oct-13-2006, 10:53pm

I'm pretty certain those on Brandt were independent of the L&H. Every Brandt I've seen except one dated 1898 sported either a nice scroll, or a tragic and ugly partial scroll (Brandt just couldn't pull that off like Embergher), back to the very early 1900s and certainly predating L&H's use. There is some speculation of a L&H/Brandt connection, but I haven't seen that substantiated, and Brandts seem to me to have a significantly different "feel." Of course, full scrolls on mandolins date to some of the earliest mandolini, at least into the 1700s.

**brunello97** · Oct-13-2006, 11:18pm

Here's a side view of a Brandt scroll dated from 1899, I believe.

(Well that attachment didn't work, so here's a few links):

[img=http://img16.imagevenue.com/loc557....lo.jpg]

[img=http://img22.imagevenue.com/loc498....lo.jpg]

[img=http://img18.imagevenue.com/loc452....lo.jpg]

[img=http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc590....lo.jpg]

The carving doesn't appear too hideous, but I've never appreciated the big metal tuner plate on the front in this design. Still I'd like to try one out.

Any picures, then, of an L+H version?

Mick

**Eugene** · Oct-13-2006, 11:39pm

No, I think Brandt's full scrolls were quite nice. It's their Embergher-like (but only barely) partial scrolls that were piggishly offensive. L&H images abound. They were considerably thicker and less violin-like, but perhaps more appropriate for carrying geared tuning machines. Check out Bob D's L&H page to start.

**Martin Jonas** · Oct-14-2006, 3:31am

That Vinaccia mandola is very nice indeed! Let's see whether there is another Japanese bidder competing with the current one. It's missing its sleeve protector, of course. I'm not too sure about the tailpiece, either: it's nicely decorated, but an 1890s Vinaccia should have ivory tailpiece pins rather than a metal tailpiece, I would think. A later replacement, maybe, along with that strap button.

Martin

**Jim Garber** · Oct-17-2006, 5:22am

Not a bowlback but relevant:
PJ Bone Book

[Oops, I must have lopped off the h from http -- thanks, Neil]

Yes, I have that 1972 edition also bought a few years ago.

Jim

**Neil Gladd** · Oct-17-2006, 6:33am

Here is a better link to the Bone book. That looks just like mine, with the same red cover. I thought the $35 price was pretty outrageous when I bought it 30 years ago...

**Martin Jonas** · Oct-17-2006, 10:38am

Neil (or anybody else with a copy of Bone),

I see from the index page in the Ebay listing that there is a photo of Leopoldo Francia in the book. Is that the same photo that is in the Sparks book? I'm looking for a better view of his Ceccherini -- in the Sparks photo, you can sort of make out that it has the typical Ceccherini pickguard, but the quality is too poor to see any details.

Strange, too, that the seller in the UK but he has listed the book in on Ebay US, with a price in US dollars. I guess, he reckons there's a better market there.

Martin

**Neil Gladd** · Oct-17-2006, 11:59am

I'll check when I get home.

**Jim Garber** · Oct-17-2006, 12:18pm

Originally Posted by (martinjonas @ Oct. 17 2006, 11:38)

I see from the index page in the Ebay listing that there is a photo of Leopoldo Francia in the book. Is that the same photo that is in the Sparks book? I'm looking for a better view of his Ceccherini -- in the Sparks photo, you can sort of make out that it has the typical Ceccherini pickguard, but the quality is too poor to see any details.

Martin:
The photo in the Bone book is not the same (see at left) -- just a head shot. Sparks cites the one with the mandolin as coming from Banjo World Oct 1896 and I would assume that it was a magazine. He says it is courtesy of the British Library.

So you would prob need the original photo not the reproduced, halftoned one.

Jim

**etbarbaric** · Oct-19-2006, 4:30pm

Originally Posted by

"This superb mandola was made by the brothers Vinaccia in Napoli in 1890...." ebay Item number: 230036852725 NICE! and nice price!

You think the opening price was nice?... check out the final! Over $16K U.S.

The times, they are a-changin....

Eric

**Martin Jonas** · Oct-20-2006, 7:28am

That is rather a lot. Nice mandola, of course. I can't quite remember, but I'm fairly sure that this is the same seller who I bought my Ceccherini from. That one was a similarly pristine instrument as the Vinaccia (of course not remotely in its league money-wise). I see he now has another very nice-looking de Meglio for sale here. This one is a 1893 Model 2 and it is much more decorated than the usually seen Models B, A and 1A (all of which look virtually identical). Apart from the decorations, the basic mandolin appears to be much the same, though. Fine condition, it appears, except that it had some of those tortoiseshell-eating beetles in: it's been eaten away around the inlay on the binding and tailpiece cover.

Martin

**Jim Garber** · Oct-24-2006, 5:13pm

I almost had a heart attack. I was checking an acoustic guitar newsgroup and someone posted that they had a mandolin and wanted it id'ed. Someone else said, oh that is an Embergher. Then the owner replied, oh it is a moot point. I just sold it for $50.

Upon further examination I checked the linked photo and it turns out it is a Suzuki, no italian instrument.

Hah!
Jim

**Jim Garber** · Oct-24-2006, 7:21pm

Tony Bingham has a lovely looking understated 1923 Flli. Vinaccia. Check it out here.

Also this unlabelled piccolo mandolin. He says Calace style and I suppose it is, tho it does have a scratchplate that resembles the Embergher scroll.

Any UKers make it over to his shop to check it out? I was there way back in 1977 but wasn't interested in bowlbacks back then.

Jim

**Bob A** · Oct-24-2006, 7:44pm

The Bingham Vinaccia is interesting in that it is a very late example. I don't know when the Last Vinaccia hit the streets (does anyone? Strikes me as of some interest) but this one must be a contender. Purfling, f'board inlays and pickguard all strike me as atypical of the Vinnies I've seen, not that there have been that many; and the lack of cutout on the peghead also jars a bit. I like the extended board. Price seems high, but then I'm not in the market, thankfully.

**Linda Binder** · Oct-25-2006, 8:30am

I haven't seen a bowlback tone-guard before! This is on an instrument on Bingham's site:

**Jim Garber** · Oct-25-2006, 8:51am

Originally Posted by (Bob A @ Oct. 24 2006, 20:44)

I don't know when the Last Vinaccia hit the streets (does anyone?

The latest ones I have in my files are a 1928 one that looks very much like a Calace in style and structure and a Roman style one that dates from 1929.

Jim

**Jonathan Rudie** · Oct-25-2006, 10:01am

Quote (Bob A @ Oct. 24 2006, 20:44)
I don't know when the Last Vinaccia hit the streets (does anyone?

A member of my orchestra plays a Vinaccia with a date of 1930. The latest I have ever seen.

**Bob A** · Oct-25-2006, 10:52am

Jonathan, if you could post a pic of the 1930 Vinaccia for the historical record, I'm sure many of us would be interested.

**vkioulaphides** · Oct-25-2006, 11:09am

Originally Posted by

"I haven't seen a bowlback tone-guard before."

SO nice to hear from you again, Linda! I was, in fact, concerned that you might be (in some way or other) not well, and was planning to drop you an "R U OK?" e-note. I am glad to be assured otherwise.

As for the tone-guard, there was once a gentleman in Norway building such —and, of course, respectively enormous— contraptions for BASSES. Needless to say, I, ehm... didn't quite buy one. #