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Thread: Bowlbacks of Note

  1. #6101

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Yeah, that guy's a weirdo.

  2. #6102
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    Yeah, that guy's a weirdo.
    Yeah, but he's our weirdo.

    Mick
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  3. The following members say thank you to brunello97 for this post:

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  4. #6103
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here's a whole thread from France talking about building a carbon fiber bowlback.
    Jim

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  5. #6104

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    This eBay instrument looks to me like an Embergher, but alas, it "non ha un'etichetta" by Embergher.
    I can't even see the maker's name embossed on the headstock, which compounds the mandolin provenance concern.
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Bellissimo-Ma...item2a33a91355
    However, if the mandolin is a bona fide Embergher, someone might get a super deal on it.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6105
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Peter: Sorry. I don't think so. Looks like a middling German copy. The shape of the bowl is very different. I doesn't really resemble any particular model of Embergher either -- they were pretty clear on the distinct models. It also looks to me like it was made within the last few decades.
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  7. #6106

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Thank you, Jim, you do not have to be sorry at all.......I haven't been interested in bidding on it.
    In fact, the mandolin has got no bids so far.

  8. #6107

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Interestingly, here is another eBay Embergher (1928) where I am unsure about its authenticity:
    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Embergher-Man...item27da8be2eb
    The enclosed pictures a and b show the mandolin as well as its headstock detail. (One can't see a stamp on the other headstock side either)
    The seller claims the maker's stamp has been worn off over years. That I find hard to understand.

    For comparison purposes, here's a headstock picture c which belongs to another significantly older mandolin (1904) where the stamp is still pretty fresh looking.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #6108
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    That one does look like a genuine Embergher. I have to check to see if they stopped stamping the name on the back of the headstock. I would find it odd if someone tried to counterfeit a student A model.
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  10. #6109

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    If we are talking pre WWII luthier skills and labour rates in Europe, I think it was significantly easier/faster to make a copy of the Embergher student model, than of an ornate artist model.
    Either way, if the Embergher shop had ceased branding their headstock by say 1928, that would offer a plausible explanation for the absence of the headstock stamp in the subject mandolin. Furthermore, I'd sooner accept that the Embergher shop somehow forgot to brand that particular mandolin to start with, than believe the stamp rubbed off scenario offered by the seller.

  11. #6110
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Do we see the interior lined with thin wood shavings underneath the label? That would be some depth of forgery.

    I'm no Embergherian by a long shot, but that body shape looks like bonafide to me.

    Mick
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  12. #6111

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Thanx, Mick: we seem to have another vote in favour of authenticity.
    As far as the maker's label goes, you may have a valid point there.
    (Incidentally, take a look at this: a seemingly genuine instrument cartiglio by the Puglisi workshop offered for sale for 35 Euros. That cracked me up.)
    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #6112
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Nice photo, Peter. I am a big fan of Puglisi mandolins. They went through a series of label design changes. The white box above the label often had the standard "deposé geschütz" registration language on them, I suppose for export to France and Germany. I've also seen a "Puglisi" signature up in that box as well.

    For not that much more money you could probably get a Puglisi label with a mandolin still stuck to it.

    Mick
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  14. #6113
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Those tuners are on upside-down by comparison with the stamped headstock instrument.
    Perhaps there's been work done in the not so distant past.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  15. #6114

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Keen observation, Eoin.
    I've checked a few other Embergher mandolin pictures, and there seems to be some variety of tuner machines and mounting arrangements they used over the years.
    It looks like some might have been mounted with the worm screw above the cog wheel, some were beneath.

  16. #6115
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    That one does look like a genuine Embergher. I have to check to see if they stopped stamping the name on the back of the headstock. I would find it odd if someone tried to counterfeit a student A model.
    The mandolin looks genuine to me -- I wouldn't be too hung up about the stamp, which I believe was somewhat inconsistently applied (at one stage they even used a stamp spelling "Emberger" without the "h"). I'm pretty sure those tuners are not original, though -- the buttons are different and the mounting plates should be squared off. While a 1928 Tipo A may have used different tuners from my 1915 Tipo A, this looks different from other 1920s ones I've seen and doesn't quite seem to fit the space on the headstock. The soundboard looks very glossy, too, and may have been refinished. Other than that, it looks in good structural condition.

    Martin

  17. #6116
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here's a noteworthy one, not only pretty, but currently owned by Louis de Bernieres:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #6117
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanzy View Post
    Those tuners are on upside-down by comparison with the stamped headstock instrument.
    Perhaps there's been work done in the not so distant past.
    My 1904 has upside-down tuners -- it tunes opposite of the way you would think. Not sure if it was intentional or not but I believe that they are original (on mine).
    Jim

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  19. #6118
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavy View Post
    Here's a noteworthy one, not only pretty, but currently owned by Louis de Bernieres:
    Very interesting, John. I guess I am not surprised that he has a Greek mandolin.

    There is an ongoing conversation about De Bernieres and Captain Corelli (and other books). I had just found a photo of the author at the BGM site.

    Curious right hand technique, no?

    Mick
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  20. #6119
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Yet another Embergher on eBay Germany. This one a style 1 from 1907 with a some interior writing by a repairer what looks like 1922. It is missing the tailpiece cover and looks like it needs to be cleaned up a bit and prob some repairs.
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  21. #6120

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Yet another Embergher on eBay Germany. This one a style 1 from 1907 with a some interior writing by a repairer what looks like 1922. It is missing the tailpiece cover and looks like it needs to be cleaned up a bit and prob some repairs.
    The price on that one seems rather steep to me, but I am not an Embergher "kenner" I'd say those 1922 repairs would require proper repair/restoration before the instrument could reach its full resale potential.

  22. #6121

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    This mandolin identified as restored Vinaccia looks very nice on the photos:
    http://www.ebay.de/itm/sehr-schon-Ma...item2a3409def4
    Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #6122
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by peterk View Post
    Interestingly, here is another eBay Embergher (1928) where I am unsure about its authenticity:
    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Embergher-Man...item27da8be2eb
    The enclosed pictures a and b show the mandolin as well as its headstock detail. (One can't see a stamp on the other headstock side either)
    The seller claims the maker's stamp has been worn off over years. That I find hard to understand.

    For comparison purposes, here's a headstock picture c which belongs to another significantly older mandolin (1904) where the stamp is still pretty fresh looking.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I guess people were not sure since it went for a reasonable price: 556 euros = about $750.
    Jim

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  24. #6123
    Registered User Martin Veit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Hi Guys,
    my first post in this amazing Thread.
    I'm very new in the roundbowl-Buisiness (and also new in posting in halfway understandable english)
    But, i've been on the trail since i found out that Embergher should have done some Export-Mandolins,
    that are labeled as "Belcanto". They were sold by an german "Musikalienhandel" and Luthier named "Emil Hofmann - Hamburg".
    I'm up for this 'cause i rebuild an old Guitar-Bass with the same label-stamp (correct?)
    and based on this, i take a lot of peeping into the mandolins of my fellows in our mandolin Orchester.
    Man - i found some hot stuff. F.eg. is one of our older member playing a fine "Puglisi" Mandolin.
    And it seems, that most of these fellows don't have any glue, how much these instruments ar worth.

    So, my fathers son is up on the ebay-trip. And there are some fine points to make, so i guess.
    For e.g there is a "puglisi" mandolin in fine condition (or so it seems) that is on auction for 50€ http://www.ebay.de/itm/141131316409?...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
    Well, if some of you has an interrest in it, the buyer is somewhat about 40km away from me.
    Would you supose to put the tumb on it?

    And a good Embergher model Student B is also available now.
    http://www.ebay.de/itm/121226517512?...84.m1431.l2649
    The last auction on ebay germany of an embergher student b goes up to roundabout 400€.

    That brings on my last question for now.
    How do you do such shippings? Lets say, you bought a instrument here in Europe.
    Or is there an other Thread about this issue?

    Enough for now on. Looking forward for your replies.
    (Man, only to read the last 30 Sites of this thread costs my over 4 hours

    Greetz

    Martin

  25. #6124
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by smackwater.jack View Post
    And a good Embergher model Student B is also available now.
    http://www.ebay.de/itm/121226517512?...84.m1431.l2649
    The last auction on ebay germany of an embergher student b goes up to roundabout 400€.
    That would be a very good price if it were in excellent condition. However take a look. The seller says "Die Saitenlage im 12ten Bund beträgt ca. 3mm." -- that the height of the strings over the 12th fret is about 3mm. However the bridge is in the wrong place. That tells me that the height of the strings is actually much higher and that the neck may need to be reset or is warped.

    This one also looks a little odd to me: the binding is very different from other student B models I have seen. other than that, non-original tailpiece and a few broken tuner buttons. Not too bad.
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    Last edited by Jim Garber; Dec-05-2013 at 10:27am.
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  26. #6125

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by smackwater.jack View Post
    Hi Guys,
    my first post in this amazing Thread.
    I'm very new in the roundbowl-Buisiness (and also new in posting in halfway understandable english)
    But, i've been on the trail since i found out that Embergher should have done some Export-Mandolins,
    that are labeled as "Belcanto". They were sold by an german "Musikalienhandel" and Luthier named "Emil Hofmann - Hamburg".
    Martin

    I have one "Belcanto" mandolin with the "Emil Hofmann Jr." label on the headstock, and it looks like 1950/60 vintage. It is a large instrument with 35cm active string length, soundwise superior to other bowlbacks of mine. The V-shaped neck and radiused fretboard are great for playing, although the instrument does stretch my hand a lot because of its length. The mandolin is built quite robustly, yet its finish and some wood selections are not very refined.
    Perhaps you could tell us more about that Embergher-Hofmann connection.

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