Bowlbacks of Note

**Eugene** · Jul-17-2005, 12:04pm

Getting back to dfxlr's new mandolin: congrats, it is very attractive. I'm also keen to hear how the restoration goes. I am almost absolutely certain it's not a Larson brothers piece but by Lyon & Healy. Note the ribs: it looks as though there are maybe four divisions (inlaid faux spacers) per actual rib to give the impression of a higher rib count. This was a common ploy of L&H on their nicer mid-range lines, like American Conservatory. The soundboard with the very long post-cant face is classic L&H. If original, the squared off bridge also is consistent with L&H. The headstock profile is identical to L&H's American Conservatory line and the engraved position markers smack strongly of L&H to boot.

The fluted no-name you've posted, Martin, looks a whole lot like some Fratelli Vinaccia. Check out this Vinaccia sold in Gruhn's distant past and featured in some of his texts. Of course, knocking off Vinaccia shops was pretty common for mandolin builders at the time this was built. The fingerboard and soundhole profile does look somehow coarser than I'd expect of a real Vinaccia shop, but the engraving looks very nice.

**Jim Garber** · Jul-17-2005, 10:29pm

The Stahl Solo 8 from the aforementioned Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra poster is now on eBay.

Jim

**Plamen Ivanov** · Jul-18-2005, 10:00am

Klaus Knorr mandolin in the Classifieds:

La Raggianta

Good luck!

**Jim Garber** · Jul-19-2005, 3:35pm

An attractive German-made mandolin by Schutze-Marke for sale on the Randy Osborne's Fine Fretted site. I don't know why, but I am not so sure that is it ca. 1900. For some reason, it appears to me to be later. Perhaps, just my gut about German instruments.

I like the fact that it is low-key on the front but fancy carved on the bowl.

Anyone know this maker? Ian?

BTW Randy also has 4 copies of the Philip Bone book. It looks like the 1972 edition (one I have). Price is not too bad for those who need one.

Jim

**Jim Garber** · Jul-19-2005, 3:48pm

This one is a conundrum. The seller says the label says Miroglio, Catania but the seller insists it is Neapolitan.

Definitely the "pig in lipstick" category but I sort of like the asymetrical, frightening scratchplate, tho I hate the MOP fretboard.

Jim

**Martin Jonas** · Jul-19-2005, 4:51pm

Jim -- "Schutzmarke" (as it's spelled nowadays) is just the German for "trade mark". The maker's name appears to be "V.W. M." (the initials of the luthier, perhaps), unless there is more writing on the invisible lower part of the label. I agree that this is a rather beautiful carved bowl with an understated front.

That Miroglio, on the other hand, is vile. Unlike you, I can't see redeeming features in the scratchplate.

Martin

**Jim Garber** · Jul-19-2005, 4:57pm

Originally Posted by (martinjonas @ July 19 2005, 17:51)

Unlike you, I can't see redeeming features in the scratchplate.

I am not sure about any redeeming features... I like it because it is so bizarre. I certainly wouldn't want to own it.

I do enjoy the oddball things that instrument designers have come up with over the years. That is why I like this thread.

Jim

**dfxlr** · Jul-19-2005, 11:25pm

Dude, that thing is fugly. FUGLY. Actually, I should watch what I say...the future owner or current biddler might be reading this. On a more positive side, it looks like it was made in the 70's style. Perhaps the owner is fond of this look. I can certainly appreciate it after a while - and it is very unique.

**guitharsis** · Jul-20-2005, 11:16am

It is unique, but not my taste either. Many people, other than those of us on this board, liked it a lot. It sold for a good price!

**onthefiddle** · Jul-20-2005, 12:32pm

A mandobass has come up for sale on ebay.co.uk
The seller conjectures that it may be a Stahl. What do our North American brethren think?

Jon

**Daymando** · Jul-20-2005, 1:20pm

Originally Posted by (onthefiddle @ July 20 2005, 13:32)

A mandobass has come up for sale on ebay.co.uk
The seller conjectures that it may be a Stahl. What do our North American brethren think?

Jon

It certainly favors the Larson Bros mandocello we have in the Dayton Mandolin Orchestra quite closely. 'Twould be interesting to hear the quality of sound it produces.

-Allen.

**Jim Garber** · Jul-22-2005, 10:04am

Mike Schroeder's last Calace (he had three others!) is back in the classifieds. He may have lowered the price. This is a player's instrument, as far as I know as the fretboard has been replaced with an extended one, new tuners and refinish. I think he may have lowered the price.

Jim

**Onesound** · Jul-22-2005, 7:00pm

I was wondering if anyone has any comments on this: #bowlback post on Ebay. #Looks to be in pretty good condition.

Thanks

**Bob A** · Jul-23-2005, 3:06pm

Since better minds have not rung in on the ebay bowlback, I'd have to say it does have condition issues. The crack at the end of the boel is not pretty, the previous repair on the face crack is kinda dingy looking, the bridge has no saddle, leaving me to suspect the action, and the way the finish has been worn off the pickguard makes me wonder why they put finish over the pickgueard in the first place.

The semi-Embergher looking pickguard coupled with a Calace-esque peghead makes it a sort of mongrel instrument. (I own and am very fond of a somewhat similar mongrel mando, but mine has a label and sounds great. What this one will sound like is amystery, which can be resolved by plonking down cash on purchase and for repair. Still, if it stays cheap, it might prove worthwhile).

**Onesound** · Jul-23-2005, 10:15pm

Hi Bob,

I kind of came to the same conclusion based upon the lack of bidding interest and low price. Course, bidding often heats up in the last hour, but I'm going to resist and wait for something that looks a little safer (better condition) and a hoefully a better investment. :-)

**Onesound** · Jul-24-2005, 11:17am

Adams Brothers and a Suzuki on Ebay. #I realize they are probably not collectors quality, but would they be decent players at a reasonable price?

**Jim Garber** · Jul-24-2005, 1:32pm

Okay... I will confess...

After Martin's lucky experience I figured that this mislabelled F. Vinaccia on ebay might be a steal. It was at a lowball bid for quite some time until the last 30 minutes when the snipers attacked and it ended at €2840.

Nice looking one with beautiful fluted back, missing a few ornamentatl parts as far as I can tell. Oh well.... someday.

I think Martin might have gotten the deal of the century.

Jim

**Plamen Ivanov** · Jul-25-2005, 4:15am

Puglisi in suspicious condition for the high "buy it now" price of 399.99 $. Looks good, but...

**Martin Jonas** · Jul-25-2005, 10:35am

Originally Posted by (jgarber @ July 24 2005, 14:32)

After Martin's lucky experience I figured that this mislabelled F. Vinaccia on ebay might be a steal. It was at a lowball bid for quite some time until the last 30 minutes when the snipers attacked and it ended at €2840.

Nice looking one with beautiful fluted back, missing a few ornamentatl parts as far as I can tell. Oh well.... someday.

I think Martin might have gotten the deal of the century.

That one is quite a bit fancier than mine, though, and by the time that mine is in playing condition, the difference in price will be a bit less. Still, I think I got a good deal (especially considering that the ugly Miroglio went for the same price as my Vinaccia).

That Fratelli looks in decent condition, and with the fluted back, the price looks roughly what one might expect for an upper-range Vinaccia. On the other hand, the German item description says that the instrument is "freshly shellacked", which sends alarms bells ringing. The photo isn't terribly conclusive, but it does look rather shiny and I think it may have an inappropriate finish on the soundboard.

Martin

**Bob A** · Jul-25-2005, 10:50am

Too bad about the Puglisi. In better condition I'd be tempted.

Too bad about the Vinaccia. I was pulling for Jim, but it was not to be. While the price is about what one should expect, the auction price, given the nature of things, should be closer to wholesale than retail, especially in light of possible problems.

I've never seen or heard of the Adams brothers. Generally there are drawbacks to Suzukis; their necks tend to warp, and they tend to be over-built otherwise, with a corresponding reduction in sound quality - a bit thin and tinny-sounding. I've not handled a lot of them, though, so there might be good examples around.

**keef** · Jul-26-2005, 3:32am

Originally Posted by (Eugene @ July 17 2005, 13:04)

Getting back to dfxlr's new mandolin: congrats, it is very attractive. #I'm also keen to hear how the restoration goes. #I am almost absolutely certain it's not a Larson brothers piece but by Lyon & Healy. #Note the ribs: it looks as though there are maybe four divisions (inlaid faux spacers) per actual rib to give the impression of a higher rib count. #This was a common ploy of L&H on their nicer mid-range lines, like American Conservatory. #The soundboard with the very long post-cant face is classic L&H. #If original, the squared off bridge also is consistent with L&H. #The headstock profile is identical to L&H's American Conservatory line and the engraved position markers smack strongly of L&H to boot.

Great observations Eugene - I agree that this thing yells "L&H" FWIW.

**Eugene** · Jul-26-2005, 6:06am

Labeling a Vinaccia as a Pinaecia, seemingly very similar to Panacea, must have been very tempting to mandolinists frustrated by technical issues.

**Onesound** · Jul-27-2005, 11:40am

I just spotted this one Mario Casella on Ebay. #I don't know anything about it, but looks to be in reasonable condition.

**onthefiddle** · Aug-01-2005, 3:54am

Here is a Mandolin by the Neapolitan Violin and Mandolin maker Carlo Loveri. It looks like a much nicer example than the previous one I remember coming up on eBay UK.

Jon

**Jim Garber** · Aug-01-2005, 7:29am

I am not sure what is going on here. It looks like an "allieve" of Vinaccia with the "restoration" done by one of Taiwan's multiplying inlay artists. I have to check my labels to see what "SALVATO PERNA" refers to.

Jim