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Thread: Bowlbacks of Note

  1. #7326
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Bill Foss: I am not sure which model this is either but it doesn’t look like the top of the line. I hesitate to say that a 1950s Calace is not good but it seems like the price is a bit optimistic. Again not having the instrument in hand I can’t say for sure. Personally I think you might want to save your money and look for a decent vintage American bowlback like Martín or Vega which will cost you less. See how you like playing that type of instrument and then consider a higher priced mandolin even an Italian one. I think you live in the US. If you were in the UK I would suggest a DeMeglio or Ceccherini in good condition before spending close to $3000.
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  3. #7327
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Yes, one can never tell without having the instrument in hand, but your input is much appreciated. I let a very nice Martin slip away just before the pandemic hit. I think I will continue the search with Martin or Vega in mind.

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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    +1 on Jim's recommendation for a good quality Vega.

    I've found them to be the most "Italian" of the major US producers.
    Lightly built (but with a better neck) and very responsive.

    Keep us posted on your search and what you find.

    Mick
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  6. #7329
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    And to add more Italian flavor try Dogal Calace RW92b dolce strings best IMHO for vintage bowlbacks.

    Consider also Washburn, American Conservatory, Weymann, Maurer etc if on good shape.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Mar-26-2022 at 7:15am.
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Why not settle for an Italian bowlback? There are quality instruments available for far less than that Calace. I can attest to the tonality of Italian bowlbacks differing from the American bowls I've played.

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  10. #7331
    Registered User Neil Gladd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I recently paid $1500 for a 1913 Calace that had been fully restored. I love it, and thought it was a deal!

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  12. #7332
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I did suggest Demeglio, Ceccherini and would add Puglisi and probably a real others. I have owned a few teens and twenties Calaces and they are excellent and own a few Emberghers. Nothing against them at all however for most of us in North America it is more difficult to obtain Italian bowlbacks and since he says he is interested in getting into bowlbacks and the good quality American vintage ones will do the trick at a lower cost that close to $3k. I think also after playing a good reasonably priced one you would know what to look for in the higher priced ones. Certainly a $1500 Calace would be a good buy. Just clarifying why I posted what I did. As many know I have a closet full of Italian *and* American bowlbacks.
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  14. #7333
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Thanks for all the input my friends. This gives me some direction.

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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here is a basic Puglisi mandolin in the Vinaccia style.

    Which probably vies as the most copied mandolin style versus the F5,

    Budget mandolin but that is one incredible scratchplate.

    We've seen dozens and dozens of these faux tortoise patterns.

    This one is great.

    If it weren't wrecked, I'd might buy if just for that. But I don't need any more wrecked (broken!) bowls.

    Anyone else remember the "Broken Bowls" sales that were held years ago here?

    Ha! I learned so much further dismembering some of those basket-case-bowls.
    And fixed up a few to be quite nice. And have a few still sitting around.


    Anyhow, makes me think about a "Scratchplates of Note" thread.


    Mick
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  17. #7335
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Mandoloncello from the Monzino luthiery, maker Marino Gennaro 1911
    Part of the Castello Sforzesco musical instrument collection Milan
    Length 1145mm width 373mm depth 220mm. scale length 740mm

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Label reads; ""ANTONIO MONZINO & FIGLI / MILANO - Via Rastrelli, 10 / STABILIMENTO FONDATO NEL 1767 / Strumenti Musicali a Corde / Fatto l'anno 1911 dal proprio lavorante / Gennaro Marino / Antonio Monzino"
    Last edited by Beanzy; May-11-2022 at 1:20pm.
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  19. #7336
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Mandoloncello from the Monzino luthiery, maker Riva Severino 1909
    Part of the Castello Sforzesco musical instrument collection Milan
    Length 950mm width 311mm depth 96mm ? scale length 576mm

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Label reads "ANTONIO MONZINO & FIGLI / MILANO - Via Rastrelli, 10 / STABILIMENTO FONDATO NEL 1767 / Strumenti Musicali a Corde / Fatto l'anno 1909 dal proprio lavorante / Severino Riva / Antonio Monzino"
    Last edited by Beanzy; May-11-2022 at 3:53pm.
    Eoin



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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Lombard Mandoloncello ,no label.
    Thought to be from the Monzino luthiery, attributed to maker Marino Gennaro, approximate years 1900-1910 due to stylistic similarities with the one in post #7335

    Part of the Castello Sforzesco musical instrument collection Milan
    Length 952 mm width 322mm depth 154mm. scale length 570mm

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Eoin



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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Mandola from the Monzino luthiery, maker Marino Gennaro 1906
    Part of the Castello Sforzesco musical instrument collection Milan
    Length 737mm width 259mm depth 167mm. scale length 415mm

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Label reads "
    Antonio Monzino e Figli/Milano - Via Rastrelli, 10/stabilimento fondato nel 1767/Strumenti musicali a corde/Fatto dal proprio lavorante Gennaro Marino, l'anno 1906/Antonio Monzino"
    Eoin



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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Lombard Mandolino from the Monzino luthiery, maker Marino Gennaro 1906
    Part of the Castello Sforzesco musical instrument collection Milan
    Length 575mm width 235mm depth 120mm scale length 307mm
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Label reads "ANTONIO MONZINO & FIGLI/Milano - Via Rastrelli, 10/STABILIMENTO FONDATO NEL 1767/Strumenti Musicali a Corde/Fatto l'anno 1906 dal proprio Lavorante/Gennaro Marino/sotto la direzione del Capo Tecnico/Antonio Monzino"
    Eoin



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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I'll end this collection with a bit of bling;
    Mandolin from the Monzino luthiery, maker Marino Gennaro 1906
    Part of the Castello Sforzesco musical instrument collection Milan
    Length 615mm width 203mm depth 144mm. scale length 333mm
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Label reads; Antonio Monzino e Figli/Milano - Via Rastrelli, 10/stabilimento fondato nel 1767/Strumenti musicali a corde/Fatto dal proprio lavorante Gennaro Marino/Antonio Monzino"
    Last edited by Beanzy; May-11-2022 at 2:30pm.
    Eoin



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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Well maybe not the last. This was too interesting a curiosity to resist.
    Again part of the Castello Sforzesco musical instrument collection Milan
    Listed as Lombard mandoloncello ?? 1890 - 1900 unknown maker
    Length 844mm width 301mm depth 167mm. scale length 521mm
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Beanzy; May-11-2022 at 3:44pm.
    Eoin



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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Curiouser & curiouser they get in the Castello Sforzesco musical instrument collection of Milan

    Liuto? or 5 course mandolonello? but looks more similar to a mandola scale
    Made in 1942 by Pagani Livio
    An interesting hybrid of styles; 5 courses, flat top, but floating bridge in the Neapolitan style.

    Length 783mm, width 264mm depth 161mm, scale length 433mm

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Beanzy; May-11-2022 at 3:48pm.
    Eoin



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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Nice set of posts, Eoin. Thanks!

    Are you in Milan at the Castello, or are these from an online database of their collection?

    We'll be over there in late June, so thinking ahead....

    Mick
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  32. #7344
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I am guessing that he is posting images from their website: https://strumentimusicali.milanocastello.it/

    or he could be there: https://strumentimusicali.milanocast.../MANDOLINO.pdf
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Just virtually touring I'm afraid. Otherwise I'd try for better pics. So Mick your holiday task is set. 🥸

    I wonder if they're kept on permanent display, or whether it's possible to arrange a viewing?
    I'm fascinated by these mandoloncello alternatives. I never even realised people had gone for working up the Lombard versions.

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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanzy View Post
    Just virtually touring I'm afraid. Otherwise I'd try for better pics. So Mick your holiday task is set. ��

    I wonder if they're kept on permanent display, or whether it's possible to arrange a viewing?
    I'm fascinated by these mandoloncello alternatives. I never even realised people had gone for working up the Lombard versions.

    Certainly worth a try, Eoin. We have had some good fortune with such in the past. Worth learning the language to help open up a few doors.

    The Monzino work is stunning and great to have the names of some of the actual makers: Gennaro Marino and Severino Riva...who Diego will appreciate was also a violin maker.

    The Sforzas have a pretty checkered reputation as dynasties go, but the castello complex in Milan is extraordinary.


    Mick
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    FWIW here is a very clean example of a Montgomery Wards label bowlback.

    There's been various discussions of on the various makers who might have supplied the Chicago ur-Amazon,
    so it's nice to keep track of these.

    As another testimony to the benefits of keeping your mandolin in its case this seems in quite good condition.
    The linework on the scratchplate is particularly attractive.

    The quality of materials, that went into these MOR mandolins of the era often comes as a surprise or even a shock.

    Given the likely quantities produced, the craftwork appears very clean and neat as well. The bowl in particular.

    Mick
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  37. #7348
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Pickguard and headstock shape resembles American Conservatory and other L&H lines. That is a good bet among the Chicago suppliers.
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Pickguard and headstock shape resembles American Conservatory and other L&H lines. That is a good bet among the Chicago suppliers.
    I wouldn't bet against that. It's a clean machine under any circumstance.

    I've got an AC bowl, and not a fancy one, but it has a proper ebony fingerboard, as this one might as well. Hard to verify from the photo.
    And not a wafer thin one as we see on most of the for-trade MOR Italian bowls of the era.

    BTW, I've replaced the fretboard on numerous Italian bowls to improve the intonation due to sketchioso fret spacing and maybe help address neck angle issues.

    Taking off the old fretboard revealed that the fret slots were cut after the fretboard was attached to the neck.
    The slots cut all the way through the fretboard and into the neck.

    Interesting process. But as thin as some of those FBs are I don't know how else it might have been done.

    Mick
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    An enjoyable Puglisi bowl for sale on Ebay.

    I like the double banding of top inlay that the Sicilians often used.

    But there it is, right there, in a great photo.

    It's not the neck that goes South on these old bowls, it's the top that sinks in and the whole neck rotates upward.

    We've seen this all too often.

    A lot behind it: design issues, construction issues, instrument care issues. Climate. Maybe even luck.

    Embergher and CFMartin addressed it.

    The "City of Broad Shoulders" built broad shouldered bowlback mandolins.
    But the problems continued.

    As much as we've discussed vintage bowlback mandolins here, this photo clearly illustrates important things.

    This beautiful instrument is toast.

    Mick
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