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Thread: Bowlbacks of Note

  1. #7301
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here is an interesting, if modest, Wurlitzer bowlback. Of the Cincinnati Wurlitzers, examples of which we have seen here.

    This one is notable for its curious assortment of details, including the headstock profile, taterbug bowl, inset tuners, and exuberant scratchplate profile, familiar but unique.

    The Italian style tailpiece is not common on US bowls and suggests to me at least an earlier date.

    The rounded over end of the fingerboard is a detail I don't recall seeing before...on either US or Italian bowls.

    I'm not sure if Wurlitzer made any mandolins in Cincinnati or jobbed them all out. (eg. I have a Wurlitzer-labeled / Vega-made "Leland" flatback.)

    This one doesn't give away much about its origins to my experience.

    I wonder what others think?

    Maybe Diego G. has a catalog page?

    Mick
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  2. #7302

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    My daughter shared this interesting listing with me: eBay item 275002416982. I'm not interested in buying, but find the piece interesting because I have a 1910s Favilla Bros. with an identical scratchplate. My Favilla differs in having the shield engraved for some shading and to include the letters "MVB" (initials of the person to place the custom order?), a different headstock design inlaid with a pearl flourish and "FAB," fingerboard extension to 29, no positoin markers, and 52 (!) ribs. I suspect this ornate, Italianate Renaissance-style dragon motif was mass produced by somebody. I would have thought it was a once-off. Since it evidently is not, I'm surprised to have only seen it twice.

  3. #7303
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here is a basket-case Fratelli Calace dated on the label 1896. Definitely a different design than later ones.
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  5. #7304
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Basket case Fratelli Calace from 1896. Interesting to see a different design from later models.
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  6. #7305
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Basket case Fratelli Calace mandolin from 1896.
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  7. #7306
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Very strange. I posted now three times here and added some photos and yet my post does not show up. Yet I posted just text like this and no problem. When I edited and added photos it disappeared. What gives?
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  8. #7307
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    FYI, I see your posts 7303 - 7306. 7303 & 7305 have attached photos that I can see. I am using Chrome browser in Windows 10.

    I am wondering if this is related to problems some iPhone users are having seeing videos caused, I believe, by an Apple iOS update that no longer allows the use of Flash . Are you using Apple software or iOS? I know the pictures are are not videos, but they use a java script called "Lightbox" and I don't know how Lightbox handles picture attachments. Could it be using something related to Flash? I believe Apple no longer allows Flash due to its vulnerability to malware attack.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

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  9. #7308
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Ah! Now they all showed up! How strange!

    Yes I was using Apple software on my Mac but never had any problems until tonight. They showed up fine now. It just took some time.

    Maybe the moderators can delete all but the first one?
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Nov-02-2021 at 7:58pm.
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  10. #7309
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Yes, a little strange. For several days my screen was showing (rightly) Eugene's #7302 as the latest post, but the Last Post link was going to the top of page 292, with #7300 as the last post visible. Glad to see everyone back.

  11. #7310
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Glad, I suppose, that it's not just me.

    I haven't been able to see any posts since just before Eug's referencing his Favilla...which Jim picked up on and referenced in another thread.
    Since I'm a fan of Favilla mandolins I was at a loss.

    Until Bruce's post seemed to break the logjam. He describes the same snarl I was having.

    Hank....this has been going on with Chrome on my Macbook and with Safari on my iPad as well for almost a week. Maybe a Mac thing?

    I wasn't having issues with other threads, though.

    Mick
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  12. #7311

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    My own ability to see disappeared as well . . . until now. I don't use an iPhone—don't post here using any phone. I wonder if the direct eBay link was somehow autoflagged as potential spam.

    I'd originally intended to follow up with pictures of my own Favilla, bought from Oster's shop in Philly years ago.

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  14. #7312
    Puzzlesmith
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Does anyone know things about Suzuki bowlbacks? M-30 M-50
    Last edited by DiMono; Dec-09-2021 at 12:10am. Reason: Added second link

  15. #7313
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    My only experience was owning a 1970s Suzuki bowl back which was overbuilt and not impressive. I have heard that the M series were and are (?) decent mandolins. I don’t know if many of those were imported to the US.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Dec-09-2021 at 8:54am.
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  17. #7314
    Registered User Marc Woodward's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here’s an odd one. It’s a de Meglio style body but dig the weird key operated tuners, the rollers in the bridge and nut, and that the strings are four single strings with loops at both ends doubled round… Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #7315

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Wacky. Good thing that fingerboard is so thoroughly mapped! It's easy to get lost beyond that first-position f".

  20. #7316
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Thanks, Marc.....These (or this) have popped up here before, I think. I've wonder if it is a hacked DeMeglio or a DeM copy to try out the inventive tailpiece, bridge, tuners rig.

    Tune both mandolin strings at once. Not hard to see how that idea might come to someone, but it's pretty impressive to see how someone followed through and actually fabricated the parts. I wonder how close it came to working?

    As ingenious as the system sets out to be, having to twist together the free ends to loop around the tuner hook undermines the fun of the cool replacement parts. They twisted ends look pretty gnarly.

    The nut looks all gunked up. Was it lubricated and they caked with dust?

    I'm with Eug, the combination of the nutty tuning system and the methodically pasting of note markers is pretty ironic.

    Mick
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  21. #7317
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Thread posted by Marc about 4 years ago here: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...ines-like-this

    And Mick found linked another one in 2020 on this BON thread: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1776677

    Carlo Alabiso/a is what it says on the back of the tuner mechanism. These are variants of the Preston tuners on citterns and Portuguese guitarras and bandolims.

    Marc, is this your treasure? If so, can you actually tune it? I think we answered your question the first time in that thread. I don't think there is any additional info. We got all the mando-sleuths on the job back then. Sorry...
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  23. #7318
    Registered User Marc Woodward's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Ah sorry, I’d forgotten I’d posted about this before. It’s not mine - it’s in a nearby music store. The photos I posted previously were ones the owner sent me - I finally got to see it yesterday. He’s hanging on to it - although I’m forbidden from buying any more mandolins anyway…

    Still I’d love to get my hands on it and give it a good cleaning!

  24. #7319
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    That’s ok, Marc. I love the super-oddity of this inventor. If I may quote my former self:

    As Graham notes, the Preston tuners add the complication of double looping but this adds even more complication using strings twice the needed length thereby solving a problem (?) that really didn't exist.
    E
    BTW Marc and I discovered we were both mandolin playing poets and right before the pandemic I was planning a trip to the UK. This Alabiso/a mandolin is yet another incentive for the future.
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  25. #7320
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here is another mandolin from P Cosentino of Valleta, though one can't be sure if it is truly of Maltese origin, or perhaps an import from Sicily.

    16 strings....as are a couple of other (mandriola ??) examples from PC that I have in my files...along with some 8 string mandolins with some of the same ornamental exuberance.

    Tuning and playing one of these, if that was the intention, would likely have required some dedication.

    This one is in rough shape but features a fluted bowl, some choice MOP on the fretboard and the top double binding was once very nice to my eye.

    The craftwork doesn't seem to be evenly distributed across all the encrustations.

    The Ben Hur dude is a bit clumsy, but thankfully his cape provides the wished-for decorum. The neighing horses are charming.

    I've never been to Malta, but would enjoy a visit one day.
    Arriving from the sea to Valleta would be pretty amazing experience, I think.

    Mick
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  27. #7321
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    16 strings....as are a couple of other (mandriola ??) examples from PC that I have in my files...along with some 8 string mandolins with some of the same ornamental exuberance.
    This should be called a poly-mandriola or maybe a many-mandriola. Yikes! Try to find 8 on a plate tuners to replace those.

    No thank you!
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  28. #7322
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I just acquired this Rafael Ciani/Galiano mandolin today. This is a modestly ornamented one with 32 ribs of rosewood and an extended fretboard. I only have one other Ciani jpeg in my files with similar fretboard markers. A friend's piano student wanted me to have it. The student is in his mid-eighties and his father owned and played it and I am guessing that his dad might have bought it new. I am not sure how the relationship of RC and Galiano (Oscar Schmidt) worked. Some Galiano labels do not say Ciani but I am not sure if I have seen RC only on a label. In any case, it is in decent shape with a broken scalloped tailpiece and a piece of the apron broken off on the bottom of the bowl.

    I will string it with my favorite bowlback strings: Dogal Calace RW92 Dolce and see how it sounds and plays. I think the owner had it worked on recently by a local NYC luthier so the neck does look straight and the action is very low and playable even with the old strings.
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  30. #7323

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I bought a Ciani/Galiano decades ago. Similar degree of ornament (but with those two cherubs facing each other on the scratchplate), but without that extended fingerboard (maybe a short extension to 20). It was a basket case, and I sold it off again for parts without giving it any effort. I'm keen for your impressions of this once strung.

  31. #7324
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Fair play to you, Jim.

    Somewhere (maybe here?) I've read something to the extend of Ciani having a studio or a "shop within a shop" at Schmidt.
    Whether that meant a physical location in the main OS works or some other location under the aegis of the big company.
    The labels aren't all that helpful. As we've seen, some just have the "RC" initials and some bear his full name.
    What was he involved with making vs what simply bore his initials?

    I guess we'll get it sorted out in that book on NY-NJ-PA mandolin makers that you and Mike are going to write.

    That small-big-small pattern of fretboard dots shows up on a fair number of the Cianis in my files. The dressier ones.

    I'm hoping this one sounds good for you as I'd enjoy seeing RC get more props in his own regard besides being the zio of JD'A.

    Just now looking at the G / RCs in my files and one maple bowlback looks strikingly like an early Favilla.
    Can't help but wonder if there was a Ciani - young Favilla connection at some point in time as well.

    Get back to us on this....

    Mick
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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  32. #7325
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I've been looking for a really good bowl back for some time. There's a 1958 Calace in the classifieds for $2,750. I play Italian mandolin tunes, many from Naples, so this caught my eye. But I know the quality of Calaces fluctuated over the decades. Does anyone know if this era is a good one? There is no model listed. I just don't know that much about bowl backs!
    Last edited by Bill Foss; Mar-24-2022 at 7:33pm.

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