Tuning a mandola to gdae like a mandolin

[wmferg]

Folks,

Quick queestion. I just bought a mandola and would like to tune it like my mandolin in GDAE. Question is, do I go up or down from the standard mandola tuning of CGDA> I tried going up first and snapped two of the G strings trying to get them up to D...so I assume I must go down, but wanted top check. I am new to this and not sure is there are some "tricks or tips" that I should be using......anybody?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[allenhopkins]

I think what you really want is an octave mandolin, tuned GDAE an octave below the standard mandolin. The mandola is tuned CGDA, as you state. You can put mandolin strings on it and tune it like a mandolin, but what's the use? You just get a large mandolin with a stiffer top that's playing in a register for which it wasn't designed. It probably won't sound all that much different from your mandolin. If you put heavier strings on it, and tune it an octave below your mandolin (GDAE), you'll get a small-bodied octave mandolin that probably won't sound so special, either. Don't know what type of instrument you bought, but it will probably give you the most satisfaction if you string it in the range for which it was designed. You do have to do a lot of transposition to apply what you know of the mandolin, to the mandola, but once you get the hang of it, it's a great instrument in its own CGDA tuning.

[kudzugypsy]

it's already tuned just like your mandolin - just with the low C
you have already found out that you cant just tune the strings up to pitch, they arent designed for that, and will break and if you go an octave lower, it will probably sound like a gourd. you *could* tune it up a whole step and then use a capo on the 2nd or 3rd fret, but i dont see the use of going thru that trouble
not really that hard to transpose, as allen said.
try it!

[tiltman]

or if you capo the second fret the upper three strings will be DAE but an octave below the mandolin.
Kirk

[EdSherry]

If you want to tune a mandola UP to normal mandolin GDAE, you need lighter strings than even a normal mandolin set (far less a mandola set), because of the longer scale length on the mandola relative to the mandolin. #(The top E string would probably be an .008 or .009.)

If you want to tune a mandola DOWN to (low) GDAE (like an octave mandolin), you will need significantly heavier gauges, again because the mandola scale length is much shorter than most octave mandolins.

I echo the suggestion to keep it at CGDA. #That's what they're made for.

[DLester]

I realize that this is an old thread but I'm facing the same situation. What I'm getting is a European made mandola tuned GDAE, which from what I have read, is pretty standard for European instruments. The instrument has a ~400mm scale length. Now I can see the point that a mandola that is designed to play with a CGDA tuning should probably stay that way but the instrument that I have on order is built for the GDAE tuning so doesn't that make a difference? Also isn't saying that mandolas are tuned either CGAE or GDAE very inaccurate? I've run into more tunings than that just doing research on the web.

Also isn't one of the issues between a tenor tuned mandola and an octave mandola not just tone but ease of playing which might to to a shorter scale length? From what I've read the tone issue isn't a settled thing. I've read comments both ways as to the tonal quality of the two instruments. To me there seems to be a trade-off between the two.

[f5loar]

If I remember correctly Peter Rowan when he was playing his 1924 H5 Loar Mandola (since stolen) he tuned it to regular mandolin tuning. Anybody remember him doing this?

[mandroid]

I like the voice of my Mandola for its own sake as it's 25% not a mandolin..
I play the mandolin for that voice..

[jesserules]

I realize that this is an old thread but I'm facing the same situation. What I'm getting is a European made mandola tuned GDAE, which from what I have read, is pretty standard for European instruments. The instrument has a ~400mm scale length. Now I can see the point that a mandola that is designed to play with a CGDA tuning should probably stay that way but the instrument that I have on order is built for the GDAE tuning so doesn't that make a difference? Also isn't saying that mandolas are tuned either CGAE or GDAE very inaccurate? I've run into more tunings than that just doing research on the web.

Also isn't one of the issues between a tenor tuned mandola and an octave mandola not just tone but ease of playing which might to to a shorter scale length? From what I've read the tone issue isn't a settled thing. I've read comments both ways as to the tonal quality of the two instruments. To me there seems to be a trade-off between the two.

In Europe the word mandola is used to denote what we call an octave mandolin - that is, an instrument tuned GDAE one octave below a mandolin.

In the US, the word mandola is used to denote the mandolin equivalent of a viola - that is, an instrument tuned CGDA (the bottom three strings of standard mandolin tuning plus the C below that G).

[CHASAX]

Play music written for the tenor banjo or learn the bass clef and play cello music.

[Jim Yates]

Jesserules is right about the word "mandola". I've also seen it called "octave mandola" in Britain.

In North America, The mandolin and violin are tuned GDAE, the mandola and viola are tuned CGDA, The violin-cello and the mando-cello are tuned CGDA, an octave below the mandola/viola and the mando-bass and double bass are tuned EADG. I have listed the strings from low to high.

Do mando-cellos exist in Europe? What do they call an instrument tuned CGDA in Europe?

[Petrus]

I've got the reverse situation: An S.S. Stewart bowlback mandolin, but I only had J-67 nickel strings which are somewhat too heavy for an old bowlback tension-wise, so I detuned it to CGDA and it actually sounds pretty good. It creates an onboard quasi-reverb and makes for easy vibrato.

Not sure about the original mandola problem postulated in the OP (eight years ago!) but my intuition is that it's always safer to tune lower rather than higher. Worst case, it'll sound too floppy and you can try a different gauge. If you tune up, you'll break strings regularly which is bad enough but worst case is doing damage to a vintage instrument. So I would always make an effort to find a gauge that can take detuning without going totally spaghetti.

It can sometimes pay off to experiment with different instruments' strings too although they may require modification for loop-end versus ball-end.

[David L]

Thomastik-Infeld sells "Octave Mandola" (American Mando-cello) strings. They are flatwounds. I use Thomastik flatwounds on my mandolin (1906 Gibson F2), mandola (1927 Gibson H2), and mando-cello (1908 Gibson K2). I love the sound, no finger noise, and they last WAY longer than other strings.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Use mandolin strings and tune it up to DDAAEEBB - I've found that quite pleasant.

[Petrus]

Not to confuse things too much, but another suggestion if anyone is into experimentation is putting on an octave course or even two. These generally work better on the low strings, specifically the G and D. I.e. gG-dD-AA-EE.

[bratsche]

Thomastik-Infeld sells "Octave Mandola" (American Mando-cello) strings. They are flatwounds. I use Thomastik flatwounds on my mandolin (1906 Gibson F2), mandola (1927 Gibson H2), and mando-cello (1908 Gibson K2). I love the sound, no finger noise, and they last WAY longer than other strings.

If you're talking about the 174 set, I think they're intended for GDAE tuning (American octave mandolin, or octave mandola in Europe), but it's interesting that they work on your mandocello (tuned CGDA, I presume), if those are the ones you're using. I'm curious to know if they are? And if so, what's the scale on your mandocello?

bratsche

[trevor]

I believe the confusion stems from the use of the term mandola for an instrument tuned GDAE in German orchestral music, I don't know the scale length, someone please correct me if I am wrong. As others have said in the UK folk instrument world (flat top) its very confusing, octave mandola, tenor mandola or mandola can mean many things...

When I first started out I built up a chart with names, scale length and tuning..

[DavidKOS]

In Europe the word mandola is used to denote what we call an octave mandolin - that is, an instrument tuned GDAE one octave below a mandolin.

In the US, the word mandola is used to denote the mandolin equivalent of a viola - that is, an instrument tuned CGDA (the bottom three strings of standard mandolin tuning plus the C below that G).

I think the Europeans call it "tenor mandola" since they do use the CGDA amndola too.

[jimmy powells]

I have a scroll model H5 style mandola (scale length as per Gibson approx 400mm) and today strung it up as an octave mandolin one poctave BELOW mandolin) using the D'Addario heavy guage mandolin strings 11.5 16 26 and 41. I discarded the 11.15s and put the 16s guage as 1st 26 guage as 2nds 41 guage as thirds and put on 58s as bottom G although I reckon they'd take 60 guage.. It works and works well but we just did this as an experiment as the mandola wasn't getting used as a mandola and it's a great instrument (Classic name on headstock as I had some made in China for me).

So if anyone wonders on string guages then this works on this scale length.

Jimmy Powells
UK

[mandroid]

single 60 is the low (8va)G on my P5 pentaula Electric 5 string GDAEB

Wonder what the Best Flat wound substitute set would be it's a 15" scale ..

[Eddie Sheehy]

You don't mention the scale length of the Mandola. The Mandola range is usually 15" (Vega), 16" (Gibson), 17" (Weber), 18" (McDonald). The shorter scale lengths can be tuned to mandolin with lighter strings, the longer scale lengths would tune to Octave Mandolin with heavier strings...

[Eddie Sheehy]

@Mandroid, I have TI Starks on my Vega 5 course with .009 from a GHS Ultralite set as the B pair.

[John Flynn]

I have done this kind of thing before and I have also accidentally ruined a cheap mandola by getting string tensions wrong. I can tell you that hearing a neck block crack in the middle of the night will turn your stomach.

Find a string tension calculator (there are multiple ones online), or you can calculate it yourself with formulas available online. Find the string tension you have now at CGDA and make sure it matches what the string package says, so you know your calculating it right. Then input the notes for GDAE and see what gauges you need. Then order those gauges as single strings. This solution will not be perfect, but it will work and you will not hurt your instrument. Then, after you've played it a while, you might realize you prefer a little heavier strings here, or lighter strings there.

Alternatively, there are some string companies you can call that will put sets together for you to the spec you give them. I think GHS is one. But please, don't guess at it!

[Bill Snyder]

You don't mention the scale length of the Mandola. The Mandola range is usually 15" (Vega), 16" (Gibson), 17" (Weber), 18" (McDonald). The shorter scale lengths can be tuned to mandolin with lighter strings, the longer scale lengths would tune to Octave Mandolin with heavier strings...

Eddie, he says it is 400mm (approx. 15 3/4").

[Eddie Sheehy]

Well since it's a 2006 thread he must have got it sorted by now...