Pic of frank wakefield's loar

[Soupy1957]

Is that the Mando that Frank supposedly filled with milk and put in the oven???
-Soupy1957

[Hans]

Somehow the instrument looks a lot better in the hands of its owner.

[Soupy1957]

I'm not sure which looks older.......Frank or the Mando!!
-Soupy1957

[AlanN]

You have posted more than 1 message concerning Frank's age, in what I feel is a disparaging manner. Not sure why, and I don't care, but I tend to come at it from a different perspective. Frank has a very long history in music, something you should study. He came up hardscrabble from a poor family, hung out with the rough and tumble Detroit country grass guys, made due when he could to play music. He pioneered a mandolin style that synthesized old with new, has played and recorded with 'outside' BG people, has written dozens of mandolin tunes. And has always been generous with his musical knowledge and skill. He was young once. He is not young now. He recently underwent major surgery. Age is inevitable, if you don't know that.

Thanks for that photo, Hans, very cool, I recognize the Minnesota BG banner in the background.

[mandopoet]

You have posted more than 1 message concerning Frank's age, in what I feel is a disparaging manner. Not sure why, and I don't care, but I tend to come at it from a different perspective. Frank has a very long history in music, something you should study. He came up hardscrabble from a poor family, hung out with the rough and tumble Detroit country grass guys, made due when he could to play music. He pioneered a mandolin style that synthesized old with new, has played and recorded with 'outside' BG people, has written dozens of mandolin tunes. And has always been generous with his musical knowledge and skill. He was young once. He is not young now. He recently underwent major surgery. Age is inevitable, if you don't know that.

AlanN, your points are well taken, but you may have taken Soupy's remark too seriously. I'm sure he was only kidding; take another look at his username.

As far as your earlier comments about why Frank has been overlooked for Gibson's Signature Model series, Doyle Lawson is proof that your "age reason" may not be valid.

[AlanN]

AlanN, your points are well taken, but you may have taken Soupy's remark too seriously. #I'm sure he was only kidding; take another look at his username.

As far as your earlier comments about why Frank has been overlooked for Gibson's Signature Model series, Doyle Lawson is proof that your "age reason" may not be valid.

Perhaps.

Perhaps. I forgot about Doyle, but I still think that Frank - and Dawg, for that matter - do not 'fit the bill' of what Gibson, the company, finds compelling in selecting a face to stake a mandolin model on. I absolutely feel from a picker standpoint that both of them, and Bob Osborne, deserve a Signature Model in their name, if not only for that the fact they these guys have played Gibson mandolins their whole lives, and are mandolin champions of the highest order.

[Soupy1957]

I have posted a thread previously, in which I praised Frank Wakefield for his skill and experience. I was joking.
-Soupy1957

[Hans]

Yer only as old as your smile!

[Hans]

Alan, agree with pretty much everything you said about Frank...believe Monroe thought he was so good at "Monroe" he told Frank to get his own style. He's pretty good at one handed Banjo too!

[Bill James]

Frank is genuinely one of the best people you'll ever meet. Meeting him and spending a little time (and getting to jam) with him was one of the highlights of my life.

That mandolin has personality and Frank can make it talk!

[Philip Halcomb]

but I still think that Frank - and Dawg, for that matter - do not 'fit the bill' of what Gibson, the company, finds compelling in selecting a face to stake a mandolin model on.

Ha, well that's definitely the vibe. The kicker is if they had a $20,000 DAWG model it would probably sell better than any of their other sig models. I bet you could probably take that to the bank. I'd much rather own a Wake model then a Benson model (wait, I owned a Wake model once from a different maker!) it was/is a killer.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Great comeback with the "smile" picture Hans

[Darryl Wolfe]

I think when you play a mandolin back by the bridge for 40-50 years, it's going to have that Monroe sound.....

Great point Don, A little discussed fact about Bill and Frank and one I don't think has been mentioned here on the cafe before

[Darryl Wolfe]

Playing close to the bridge is a more difficult technique to master as the strings accordingly are tighter with far less give and you need more 3 Dimensional control with your right hand. #It produces the "stuccato" sp? nail driving effect that Monroe is known for and probably? drives the top of the instrument more. #Dad always harped on me to "get back closer to the bridge" #With no disrespect, part of the reason today's younger players can do some of the things they do is because few "play on the bridge"

[Don Grieser]

If you look at Frank's right hand in the first photo, where he's playing a single note line, he's playing just behind where the f holes end and to the bridge side of the long florida. Most folks have a shortened florida and/or have it scooped out and are playing over it. (the sweet spot) It's a very different voice closer to the bridge--it sounds like raw powerful bluegrass.

[Darryl Wolfe]

This is very similar to why a good guitar player such as Tony Rice shifts toward the bridge when switching from rhythm to lead during a song. #Those that do not merely complain about the PA system. End of Hijack, back to Frank Wakefield

[jasona]

There is one tune on Travellers (Reischman, Baldassari, Bullock) where whomever was playing mandolin switched to playing back by the bridge for a few passages and it sounded like an entirely different instrument. It was a very nice effect. I like the percussiveness you can get back there.

[Darryl Wolfe]

courtesy of Jim Moss 1979. Visual proof

[AlanN]

Dang, Monroe's right hand looks like a leg of lamb, no wonder he could purt a hurtin' on it!

[mandolooter]

Add my thanks to the list Hans...great pic's of my mostest favorite picker ever! He's one happy lookin feller now ain't he.

[f5loar]

There are at least 3 Bobby Osborne Gibson signature model Ferns out there. Not sure why they didn't make more other than couldn't work out the right to use his name. But while we are on the subject of signatures they overlooked Jesse McReynolds too. I understand he now plays a DMM. And as far as signatures most of them don't look anything like the Gibson they have played for years. If Gibson wanted the ultimate Monroe model it wouldn't have a top curl or the name "Gibson" in it. It would be extremely distressed!

[JEStanek]

I have some spruce and maple chips I could sell you as the ultimate Monroe Distressed reproduction. Going cheap at the Buy It Now price of $1,500 plus shipping and insurance. Insurance will not cover further fire poker damage.

Those are great photos of Frank and his storied axe.
Jamie

[Soupy1957]

If I keep goin the way I'm goin, tending to rest my right palm (on that big hunk o' meat below the thumb) on the bridge, that forces me to play the strings about 3 1/2 to 4 inches up the neck, from the bridge.

I shouldn't be resting my palm on the bridge, I know. The pain I get trying to tremelo in that position tells me so.

-Soupy1957

[Glassweb]

Here's an interesting quote from "The Master Model" brochure that probably came with Loar F5's. "The usual place for attacking the strings on the Master Mandolin is about 1 1/2" inches from the bridge, but the player who wishes to have at his (or her) command the greatest variety of tone color will be able to attack the strings at any point between 1 1/4" from the bridge to the twelfth fret". Bill and Frank certainly used the "closer to the bridge" attack to get that nasty, bluegrassy tone that we all associate with Monroe... especially his bluesy, down stroke lead playing (check the solo on Columbus Stockade blues). I know many of you younger or new to mandolin players don't have this album, but to hear Frank at his best pick up "Red Allen, Frank Wakefield and the Kentuckians".
Heavy stuff! He opened up the world of Bluegrass harmonically, no doubt! As for The Dawg - if anyone deserves a signature model mandolin from Gibson it should be him. The ultimate champion for the mandolin in my book.

[Bob Sayers]

This is a real "aha" moment for me. Thanks, Don and Darryl. The discussions about truncated or scooped out fingerboard extensions to avoid "pick clicking" has always puzzled me, mainly because my natural tendency has been to play in the zone between the extension and the bridge for that "Monroe" sound. (Banjo players do this, too, anchoring their pinkie right next to the bridge, when they want a more powerful attack.) Anyway, to know that the master himself did this just confirms that the "sweet spot" can mean different things for different musicians.

Bob