Learning fiddle or flute

[Klaus Wutscher]

Ok, so I I´m ready for another career... aehm, shift, and decided that I want to become a music therapist. I applied and was accepted by the University in Munich. So far, so good.

Only trouble is, I am required to learn another instrument and it really boils down to the fiddle or the flute ( I will NOT consider recorder, which would be the easiest, but no way!). I will also have to pass an exam in 1,5 years where I will have to be able to sightread some music, but basically easy stuff.

So, I tried fiddle before, but it´s tough. Had a lesson the other day, now it seems even tougher and 18 months is NOT much time for a beginning fiddler.

The flute, on the other hand, is totally different than the mandolin, of course, but it seems to be easier to pick up at least at first(it will get just as hard to play as any instrument on a certain level, of course).Embrochure (?) will be quite an issue, though.

Flute would have the benefit of exposing me to a totally new approach to music and it is as far away as anything from bluegrass and country, which at this point in my life seems to be a good thing.

Of course, if I would learn to REALLY play the fiddle, that would be a treat, but I´m 31 and practice time is limited so I have to be realistic.If I end up as a soso fiddler, I might not be able to use it in my work at all...

Does any of you have experience with one or the other instrument? Does anybody on the board play both?

Any insights are much welcomed

Klaus

[EdSherry]

You might try pennywhistle (if that counts). I play some whistle in Celtic music, as well as mando in both Celtic and bluegrass, and whistle is fun and relatively easy to learn.

[pettyman]

I play clarinet which I guess has some similarities to flute - fingering and breath control. I can pick a flute up and play little tunes on my brothers flute (which he has self taught himself having played guitar, piano and trumpet). I wouldn't say it's easy to learn but might suggest it would be easier than fiddle.

Having said that if you're a mando player I guess you have fingering already for fiddle (I've never tried fiddle before someone points out a flaw in my knowledge!) But bowing is difficult from what I can pick up!!!

And lets be honest, for the ear a beginner flute is far nicer than a beginner fiddle!!

I would also like to point out that harmonica is a valid choice and it aint that hard to pick up - it's flippin hard to master but to be able to play to an acceptable level it's pretty straightforward!

Just a few thoughts!

Matt

[OregonMike]

My thought would be to choose the additional instrument that you are really drawn to - the one you turn up the volume when you hear a break or solo on - as you will be spending alot of your time (hopefully the rest of your life with it).

That said I have found the switch from mando to my fiddle easier than I expected (I'm 39) but it helps to be obsessed with learning the instrument.

[mandosis]

From another perspective (I'm a licensed therapist specializing in Child and Family therapy) - if you are intending to use this skill as a component of therapy, I would strongly recommend choosing an instrument which your clients would respond to, and that may not necessarily be one which you would choose for your own entertainment.

Typically, you use music to engage and/or sooth clients. Quite often the higher ranges can really irritate them....and with kids, you need to be singing along with them for encouragement.

Just a thought, but I'd focus on how I'd be using the instrument and skills in music therapy, you'll get more out of your program that way.

(now, there's a chance you already have that covered with another instrument you already play and now you really are just looking for a way to meet an academic requirement.....if that's the case, ignore all this)

[kyblue]

I found the shift from mandolin to mandola easy, as both are tuned in fifths (mandola a fifth lower than the mandolin.) #Recently, I've acquired a 1960 Martin tenor guitar, and I'm enjoying the heck out of that. #I tune mine like the dola, CGDA, but some tune like a mandolin GDAE (octave mandolin, actually.) #If they would accept this as a second instrument this would seem like a very easy transition. #And, you can strum like a guitar, use for accompaniment for vocals, finger pick or flat pick etc. #I use a lot of open chords, even use a capo some, find that I have an easier time with melody because my fingers have more room to move. #

Just a thought. #

Paula

[JGWoods]

If leaving the world of bluegrass and country seems like a good thing then all doors are open and the flute will almost certainly be easier to gain proficiency on than the fiddle.
On the other hand a year and a half of practicing at least an hour a day and you will- probably- become a functional fiddle player- able to sight read simple stuff and play with reasonable intonation. If less than an hour every day- all bets are off for the fiddle.
I think you could do as well on the flute with half the effort, so if time is a big constraint, and the choice is between the two instruments you mention, pick the flute.

[ponyfiddle]

I played flute from age 11 thru high school. I was in a house fire at age 22 and my flute was destroyed... oddly, I never desired to pick one up again. A year and a half ago at age 43 I bought a fiddle, and a couple of months ago I got a mandolin. I can't say which is easier because that is such an individual thing. Fiddle's my main instrument, but I do love my mando. It seems that if you are drawn to an instrument your desire to play will get you thru the learning plateaus. Play what you love, anything else will be a chore.

Oh, and there are some truly ghastly sounds that can come from a flute. Some days those were my specialty!

Nan

[erichkopp]

Playing the guitar might not be a bad idea either. Most people can learn to strum some chords and play some scales in a relatively short amount of time, and that also might be a common instrument that a lot of people would want to play. Because you already play one instrument, being able to play another should come pretty quickly with some practice. Music theory is the same with any instrument, so once you learn the notes and get a feel for the instrument it shouldn't be too difficult.

[catmandu2]

I do play both, plus a variety of others. I also work with Altzeimer's patients and use music much of the time. i have some experience with what works and what doesn't. A chording instrument such as guitar will, indeed, be more useful to you than just about any other instrument. I'm surprised that you're not required to learn a chording instrument. Singing is a big part of what I do. It will take some accomplishment on either fiddle or flute to employ it successfully in the therapy field. That being said, if you can play a bottle you can learn the flute, and it's far and away easier than violin. It's one of the easiest instruments I've tried.

[bush-man]

Klaus do you read music? If you do then you already have all the fingerings and posistions for the violin, as it is identical to the mandolin. Learning to bow is the toughest thing. That can take a life time. I find the flute a very easy instrument to play. The fingering is easy. Some people have trouble with the embrochure, but I never had a problem. Having said that, probably the most beneficial instrument you could take up would be the piano. Playing the piano will open up all the mysteries of music theory. Just my 2 cents.

russell

[Klaus Wutscher]

Thanks all for your imput!

I forgot to mention that we have to play one chordal instrument (which in my case is the guitar - I have been playing guitar on and off for 15 years) and one melodic instrument, in which case , the mandolin is not accepted. Now that could be argued (why not the mandolin while the harp is accepted) but I don´t want to raise a stir before I even start the programm and - hey - what´s so bad about "having to" learn another instrument?

Mandosis, you made an excellent point about the purpose of the instrument - one problem I can see with the fiddle would be that it would bring be into "performance mode" pronto, which is definitely NOT what you want in a therapie setting. On the other hand, it should be an instrument which I like to play enough to create some good vibes (therefore NO RECORDER). Probably, in active music therapy I will end up playing guitar/percussion/anything that makes a sound most of the time anyway. The flute/fiddle will mostly be used when playing for clients which cannot participate.

Also, the range and tone of the fiddle is maybe not best suited to this purpose - chello might probably be much better, but it really is not that portable. While the range of the flute is similar, it appears to me to be easier on the ear.

And, yes, I do read music, albeit slowly (will have to improve on that, too). Since the piano is another chordal instrument, it will not help me much (although one of these days, I would love to be able to play some piano).

[mandroid]

An accordion, or Tuba perhaps ? most folks have a good time when theres a polka band playing.

[Chadmills]

EdSherry mentioned already whistles, but what about "low whistle"? Same pitch range as a flute, down to D above middle C, beautiful soft sound, very "therapeutic" in a casual meaning of the word, and much more accessible than flute, no muscle controlled embouchure as such. Only downside is largish finger stretch. Parallel bore tube means it doesn't have that certain "recorder sound," or it it still too closely related!

[Klaus Wutscher]

EdSherry mentioned already whistles, but what about "low whistle"?

Actually, low whistle was one of the first ideas I had - I always loved the sound and it is much easier to play than the flute. I´m not sure if low whistle would be acceptable because it is not a cromatic instrument, but neither is the recorder (to my knowledge?) which is acceptable so it should work. Low whistle would definitely be an option, also as a second instrument later on. You can never play too many instruments in that field.

[Chadmills]

My understanding would be that low whistles can play in several keys, so could be described as "partially chromatic," there are some notes that would be a struggle either by cross-fingering or half-wholing. The small size of recorder holes makes them more chromatic by cross fingering, though still less so than a Boehm flute.
I had a quick look around to see if anyone is making low whistles with double holes (like the lowest two on a recorder) but didn't see any. Interested to see that Susato do low whistles with some keys to reduce the finger stretch problem.
Are tenor recorders bearable, or is it the whole family?

Probably good to mention mandolins! I see Weber recommend stringing their little "Sweet Pea" with just four low tension strings to make it more accessible to children etc!

Would you need to include harp at some point? It's the only instrument where I've seen versions designed specifically for music therapy.

[Klaus Wutscher]

Wow, some pretty substantial information here. I admit that I don´t know a whole lot about wind instruments yet. My girlfriend used to play recorder as a kind and plays pretty well, still. The problem I have with recorder is probably not so much the instrument as such but the connotation it carries, at least here in austria where it is considered more or less strictly an instrument for children. Since I also want to work with adults, being a balding, soon to be middle aged guy playing the recorder will be an odd sight for clients who, for the most part, have to be convinced that music therapy is good for them, and probably another obstacle to overcome.

Harp would be great too, of course...

[catmandu2]

...probably the most beneficial instrument you could take up would be the piano.

We use piano sparingly at work. It's effective as a melodic tool that's easily accessible for our clients, but the huge furniture acts as another barrier between player and receiver intimacy. Although I do use the inherent acoustic capacities of our upright and spinets for some ambient work, I primarily use our portable digital as it minimizes the problem of the size of the equipment. We more often employ percussion instruments (drums, bells, blocks, etc.) for participatory session work.

As a flamenco guitarist told us in a master class he taught, the guitar is a miniature piano. Especially in the music therapy field, I agree: its chordal capacities--ability to harmonize, play melodic lines and self accompany--and small, portable size render it ideal.

I use my fiddle for performing, but some folks particularly respond to its glissando and portamento qualities in intimate one-to-one work. In this respect, the violin's ability to approximate human vocal quality is unique and effective. A wind instrument, particularly one that is easily played in dulcet tones such as flute in low register, is also effective.

I use guitar and mando with about equal frequency. The percussive nature of fretted strings also makes them very useful. For me, in my work, the mando is the most versatile.

Harp is employed almost exclusively in palliative settings such as Hospice.

[anchorman86]

Clarinet might be a good choice too - I found it easier to learn at first than the flute...although the fingerings are more difficult, the embouchre is easier to produce sound with. Plus it's got that lovely, mellow tone to it. Viola might be good as well - the lower range and deeper tone make it sound even more like a human voice than the violin.

[Alex Fields]

Fiddle sounds awful until you're really good at it. I've played fiddle for nine years. I've never played a wind instrument but my intuition and experience from listening to beginning musicians tell me that a beginning or intermediate wind player will sound much more pleasing than a beginning or intermediate fiddle player. And I would vote for clarinet over flute.

[glauber]

Sax is a whole lot easier than clarinet, with similar embouchure. IMHO, flute is much easier than clarinet too, at least in the beginning. But clarinet is a lovely instrument and has an enormous range (more than 4 octaves). One of the nice things about flute is not having to deal with reeds (or strings, or anything). Recorder is nice too (although the cheap recorders they foist on children are nasty).

[pettyman]

I'd definately agree with the flute being easier than clarinet - for both embouchure and fingering.

What about the brass instruments - just another completely different options - but a trumpet or trombone are awesome fun to play! and one heck of a sound!

Matt

[Elliot Luber]

If you're going to have to learn something, make it something you want to learn, so then whether it's easier or harder, you won't mind as much.

[John Craton]

Having played violin, mandolin, flute, and recorder, I have to cast my vote for the recorder. It is much easier to learn the basics on recorder than on flute, but the fingerings are very similar. Your fellow Austrians may view it as a children's instrument, but that is hardly the case. There are a number of superb recorder virtuosos in the world today who easily dispell the idea of its being a simple or limited instrument. It is often taught to children (even here in America) because it is inexpensive and very easy to learn the basics, but that hardly makes it a children's instrument. (Piano is also very easy to teach to children, but it is certainly not limited to simplistic technique.) For that matter, where I grew up people generally considered the flute a "girl's instrument," though how one can ascribe gender to a musical instrument is beyond me. That attitude caused me some grief until people heard me play. The same type of thing can apply to the recorder. Learn to play it well and people will become enchanted with it.

As for whether to get a soprano, alto, or tenor recorder, that's really a matter of personal preference. It also may depend on the size of your hands. People with very big hands sometimes have difficulty playing the soprano (and definitely the sopranino), whereas small hands may make the tenor uncomforatble to play. Remember, though, that soprano and tenor recorders are C instruments while the alto is F.

Perhaps the best thing about trying recorder first is simple economics. They're not at all expensive (unless you shop for a professional model), and should you decide you don't like it you won't be out hundreds of Euros as you would be with a flute or clarinet ... and certainly with a violin.

That's my two cents' worth, as we say in America. Keep us informed on your decision (and your progress). Good luck!

[Klaus Wutscher]

John,

I definitely do not see the recorder as a "children instrument". Suffering from belittlement of my beloved little guitar, I will not pass the bug and impose judgement on another instrument (ok, at least not purposely, but maybe out of a bad habbit). There is great music for recorder (esp. classical/early music) and in therapy, it might be a great instrument to work with children because it is so accessible for them. Still, the flute somehow floats my boat more than the recorder. I have access to a borrowed flute for a few weeks and will give it a try. (On a side not, how does one clean a flute? Just water? any corrosive parts?) Clarinet and other reed instruments might be problematic because, to my limited understanding and experience (Tried sophrano sax for a few months), they are harder to play softly and being able to play softly with ease is crucial in therapy, I assume.

I will let you all know how it turns out!