My study of the tone-gard

[SternART]

Has anyone mentioned you can also hear yourself better?!

[Tom Sanderson]

I have a high end mandolin, and I'm leery about mounting anything on it that might damage the finish. I mostly play sitting down which makes it easy to keep the back away from my body. When I'm standing, I rest the end of the mando on my hip bone. I've found that any kind of pressure on the top really dampens the tone. I try to keep my right arm and wrist from touching any part of the instrument including the strings, and only touch it with the pick. It's really surprising how much that improves the tone. I've seen people actually use their right arm to hold the mando by kind of clamping it to their body, that's a tone killer for sure. I think mounting the TG on the instrument would change the tone just because you're adding mass to it. Learning to play with good tone is an art in itself, there are a lot of really good players that have really poor tone in my opinion. Another reason I don't use a TG is that I try to stay away from gadgets, one of the really cool things about the mando that sets it apart from other instruments is the ease of travel because it's so small. All I take with me is 2 picks, a tuner, and a set of strings. Of course, this is just my 2 cents worth. I think my main point is that working on good tone is a very important part of playing, and it's not taken as seriously as I think it should be
Tom

[Jim Broyles]

Tommy, no metal touches the mandolin, and it fits in the case with it on. As far as tone goes, on my mandolin the improvement in tone is negligible, but the increase in volume is noticeable. Do you use one of those strap gadgets?

[mythicfish]

"Of course, generally a mandolin will sound better or at least different if you are sitting in front of it than if you are sitting behind it. So it's not easy to tell for sure how much a ToneGuard improves a mandolin merely by playing it. "

Thanks for this important and overlooked observation. Those of us who are performing for audiences (not for other musicians or our living room furniture) want to provide the most enjoyable performance for the people who come to
hear us. That's one reason why we play facing them! Now if they wish to turn their backs on us ... that's another story.

Curt

[Jonathan Peck]

I play at jams and I also like to spend some time in the audience listening. I find that there are mandolin players who I can't hear, even with a tone guard, and mandolin players that play too loud, even though they don't have a tone guard.


I'm not saying that proves anything, but from what I've read here, I would definitely want to buy one...but based on personal experience, I know that I neither need one or want one.

[Tom Sanderson]

[QUOTE]Do you use one of those strap gadgets?

Yeah, I use a strap.



I think a new topic about tone in general would be a good thing. I'm not for or against the tone guard, but for me, I think less is more, that's the way I try to approach most things in my life. Practicing good tone with the bare minimum seems to be the smart thing to do, Some players (Grisman for example) can coax tone out of a rock because they know how to play the instrument in a way that lets it respond to it's full potential. There are so many things that can affect tone.Anything that changes the mass will change the tone (pick guard/no pick guard, scroll/ no scroll, string gague, pick thickness, Pick materal, top wood, I could go on forever). I think learning how you play the instrument is the one thing that we all need to constantly be aware of and try to improve on. I want to be able to sound good on any mando I play, weather it's mine, or someone elses. Again, my 2 cents worth. I welcome any advise that can help me become a better player.For me, working on how I hold the instrument, how I hold the pick, and adjusting to how each individual instrument responds is a big challenge.

[Jonathan Peck]

Tommy, good point

I wonder how many pickers that see a big difference in tone and volume using a tone guard ALSO use a thick pick like the Wegen bluegrass 1.4mm...and are they power grippers or finger resters? Also, do they use the point of the pick or the rounded side?

[Tom Sanderson]

I'm going to start a new topic in Theory, Technique, Tips and Tricks to discuss tone in general

[Jim Hilburn]

If your worried about a Gard adding mass to the instrument, then you should really be worried about the mass of your gut.
If not impossible, it certainly is impractical to COMPLETELY isolate the instrument from your body the way the Gard does, even when your seated. I also think a lot of folks don't fully realize the importance of the back to the tone a mandolin or for that matter guitars. They could benefit greatly from a Gard. The backs job isn't just to make an an air cavity, it's meant to move and move a lot. And to say you get volume with no difference in tone is pretty suspect because it's definitely going to free up the low end the most.
Tony, congradulations on creating the most talked about accessory for mandolins. I think it's overtaken tuners, both the ones on the peghead and the electronic ones.

[Scotti Adams]

..good point Jim.

[Paul Kotapish]

The topic states: "My study of the tone-gard"
This is not a study at all - merely a subjuctive evaluation. A study might include a number of instruments played for a panel of knowledgeable musicians with no knowledge of whether the tone-gard was in use or not.
As for "mojo" ... the less said, the better. I'd rather rely on practice and experience than superstition.

Curt

Not sure how scientific it was, but I participated in a blindfold test with the Tone Gard on and off a series of mandolins that included two Gilchrists and a Loar. In addition to my ears, Tom Rozum, and Laurie Lewis were on the panel. Say what you will about my ears and Tom's, but people all over the world pay for Laurie's ears and studio savvy, and she is widely regarded as having unparalleled auditory chops.

We all agreed that all of the mandolins sounded better with the Tone Gard.

Scientific? Who knows? But an ad hoc panel of experienced musicians all agreed that the Tone Gard improved the tone and volume of three already great sounding instruments. Combine that little test with the decidedly positive--and entirely subjective--experience of playing my mando with the TG and I'm a believer.

Just for curiosity, how many of the naysayers and doubters have actually tried the TG for a week or two?

[Jim Broyles]

Paul, I would consider that a study.

[Jonathan Peck]

I think that there's plenty of evidence to support that a mandolin can sound pretty darn good without one too. I still think it comes down to personal preference and not a 'must have', but I guess you could say the same thing about clip on tuners.

[jasona]

Scientific? Who knows? But an ad hoc panel of experienced musicians all agreed that the Tone Gard improved the tone and volume of three already great sounding instruments. Combine that little test with the decidedly positive--and entirely subjective--experience of playing my mando with the TG and I'm a believer.

Just for curiosity, how many of the naysayers and doubters have actually tried the TG for a week or two?

I play with one every day pretty much, and have had it for a few years, since buying it directly from Tony's hands at a CoMando event.

I'm not questioning that it helps isolate the back of the mandolin from the...abundantly blessed...midrift. I question whether its added mass goes BEYOND this isolation, and actually adds tone as Scotti and others have suggested early on page 1.

[thistle3585]

I was at a Mike Compton workshop and he said that part of his playing style was being able to dampen the tone, by holding it against his body, as he performed. I never really noticed until that point how much he holds it away from his body when he is really picking hard. I think he felt that the TG limited his tonal range more than it helped his projection. I don't know whether he still feels that way today, as that was soon after they started becoming popular. It seemed similar to some Latin musicians I once saw that would dampen the top with their forearm as they play.
Personally, lessons would be a better investment for me than a tone guard. No one wants to hear me play as it is, much less play that poorly louder.

[Big Joe]

Equally ...or more important to me, is the arm rest. It clamps on but does not touch the top or cause it to reduce top vibrations, but what it does is keep your arm off the top. This allows the top to vibrate more freely, and allows my arm to be at a bit different angle which improves MY tone. In addition, it keeps my arm off the top which eliminates the sweat stains to the finish. I like my tone guard, but I think the arm rest is more important for all those reasons. I normally use both and get the best of both worlds. For me, it protects my high end instrument and allows the instrument to give the best it can with what it has. The rest is up to me. Either I will play with good tone or I won't, but it certainly is not my instrument holding me back in any way!

[harleymando]

Id like to try one, but it cost too much! I place it with the red bear pick, way overpriced!

[bradeinhorn]

I think it is priced appropriately. with the expense of decent sounding mandolin, at most you are looking at a 5% upcharge (figuring the mandolin costs 1200). Considering the average mandolin with a tonegard, this is probably more like a 2% upcharge or less. very little for the benefit it gives. big joe puts it nicely - "it allows the instrument to give the best with what it has". i'd gladly tack on the 65 dollars to achieve that.

that said - i don't think i would recommend one for an inexpensive instrument. i think the thinner the instrument is carved and the lighter the finish (often signs of a well made mandolin) - the more difference the tg tends to makes. additionally, if the tone isnt there to begin with, it's not going to magically appear.

[Bob Denton]

I bought one for my F5-L but it makes a huge diffference on my Kentucky 380S and that's where I keep it.

Cya!

[jmcgann]

Id like to try one, but it cost too much! I place it with the red bear pick, way overpriced!

Umm, how much didja pay for your mandolin?

Love, ToneGard Believer

[Ted Eschliman]

Talk about way overpriced, a good G string on a mandolin can be more than FIVE times the price of an E string. I decided to stop using them, too.

[Dan Krhla]

John,

Glad to hear you chime in on this one. One more reason I can't wait to get mine back from Tony who is undoing whatever the last luthier to touch my mando did to my Gard™

[Mike McCoy]

I have a Gard on my mando and guitar as well, they work great for me. As for the price (good point John LOL), try making one yourself and see what it costs, that is if you can figure out how to make one in the first place.
Now would be as good a time as ever to repeat something that Tony Pires has said on his site as well as here on several occasions. That is he doesn't recommend using the Gard on varnished instruments unless a few marks don't bother you, especially "new" varnished instruments where the finish hasn't had time to cure and harden, this should be a no brainer but...

[EdSherry]

"Overpriced?" Not in my view. The best $65 (now slightly higher) I ever spent improving the tone of my mando.

[Emonortem]

I asked Thile several months ago why he wasn't using a tone-gard and he said he had lost the one he had, but several months ago, he was using a tone-gard during his recent tour with Edgar Meyer, so either he bought a new one or found his old one...

or he's a liar!