What to look for before i purchase

[PamGray]

I would like to purchase a Gibson mandolin from the 1920's or the 30's. I had a chance to play a 1929 model at a Steve Kaufman mandolin workshop in Dallas. Can anyone give me some tips on what to look for as far as imperfections? I have noticed that alot of the ones that I have seen have had repaired cracks. Does that affect the playability? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Pam

[OregonMike]

Pam -

Correctly repaired cracks (except neck) do not as a rule affect playability but they do have a big impact on price. A great number of vintage violins out there have repaired cracks and are still sought after.

My advice would be to play a lot of them and pick the one that sounds best unless you are in the collector's market. There are a lot of vintage As out there (assuming you ar looking for an A) and they vary greatly in tone.

Vintage Fs are another creature as the pickings are slimmer. This is a good overview of the model line as well: Mando History

[stevem]

I suggest buying your first from a reputable dealer. There are so many things that can be wrong with an old instrument that it's a real risk to buy from an unknown source. Repairs aren't usually cheap.

I've only made 2 ventures into vintage instruments (a '33 Martin guitar and a teens Gibson A-3). Both times I thought they were in really good shape and that I was getting a great price. But, when wiser hands got a hold of them, they highlighted numerous issues I missed--sort of embarrassing, but a good education.

[sunburst]

Is there some specific reason for wanting a Gibson from the 20s or 30s? Is it to be a "collector" or a "player"? Are you looking for sound or "mojo"?
If you want a mando to play, and there's a sound you want, why limit the search to Gibsons from those years? What if you find the sound you want, and it turns out to be a teens Gibson, or even a new mandolin?

If you are "collecting" or "investing", the specifics of what to look for can be different than if you're looking for a "player".

[PamGray]

The reason that I was looking for a Gibson model like the one that I mentioned, was because of the warm sound that it made when I played it. It was very easy to play compared to the one that I currently have. I wish to purchase one for playing and not collecting, and I was just trying to get some input so that I could decide whether or not to pursue this. I am open to new instruments or vintage instruments as well. Thank you, everyone for being so helpful and informative. This gives me some ideas. What about guitar shows? Are they good to go to if I am looking for an older model mandolin? Also, does anyone know of any reputable dealers of vintage dealers in the USA? Like I said, I am new to this, so any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Pam

[Darryl Wolfe]

It would be helpful to understand more about "what exactly did you play"

[Jonathan Peck]

Hi Pam,

If you are looking to buy w/o trying because of geographic restraints, there are certain builders that are known for their consistency in tone and build quality. I wouldn't lump older Gibsons into that category though (tone and condition of the intrument can vary). Your best bet might be to find a reputable dealer who will give you a trial period. Of course, there's nothing like sampling a bunch of different old A's hanging on a wall side by side to determine which one is the right one for you. Like has been said already, tone, playability and condition can vary.

[Tina MBee]

I've gotten 2 Gibsons from this gentleman
http://www.vintagemandolin.com/
I have a 1917 Gibson A1, and a 1999 Gibson F5G- both sweet and both sound different - hence the reason for two I play Ren./18thC on the 1917 and bluegrass on the other.

[sunburst]

Pam, mandolins in general, old Gibsons included, can be very different one from another. If you find another '29 model, it might be entirely different in sound and playability than the one you tried. If you are looking for a player, limiting yourself to certain years from a certain manufacturer may not be such a good idea, but if, as you say, you're open to other options, then you can certainly find something you like sooner or later.
Guitar shows can be good places to look for old Gibson mandos, and even if you don't find what you're looking for, they can be enough fun, and you can look at and play enough instruments to make them worthwhile anyway.
Shopping for a "vintage" instrument, or any instrument can be a lot of fun anyway, if you give yourself plenty of time and don't pressure yourself to make a quick decision.

Some dealers:

Bernunzio
Elderly
Gruhn
Mandolin Brothers
Players
Charles Johnson

There are others.

PS.
Gotta love that den of snake heads in Charles Johnson's driveway!

[otterly2k]

Here's another - Fred Oster's shop in Philadelphia...
vintage-instruments

[JEStanek]

Fred Oster's shop in Philly has a wall full of vintage instruments, Gibsons, Martins, some other odds and ends. I visited a year ago and wouldn't hesitate to use him or Mandolin Brohters in Staten Island as they are both close enough to try instruments before purchasing (pretty much universally recommended to try before buy with vintage stuff). Those older Martins have a nice sound, different but cool from Gibson's, too.

If you can't test drive instruments, the dealers suggested above are reputable but you should invest a fair bit of time in talking with them so they know what you are looking for so you don't get dissapointed. Understand what you want to play and sound like. Be very clear about how important cosmetics are for it as well. A more beat up looking mando may sound as good or better or worse than a clean one. If you're really after a good player, and not investing a beat up one will get more tone per dollar.

Good luck.
Jamie

[eljaspero]

So...I'ma be in Seattle for a couple days next week. What are the good shops out there for a guy who might want to pick up a new (vintage) carry-on?

[Jim Garber]

Pam,
I would recommend (as others have) playing ones in person. If you let us know your geographic area perhaps there are dealers who have what you are looking for. Otherwise, you will spend some time trying ones out.

of course if you have the, say, $1200-2500 to spend on a mandolin that it might cost you for a good sounding old Gibson, you might want to take a look at makers in that range.

I would suggest (from the ones I have played, Bill Bussman's Old Waves which have very nice tone and playability. There are others as well.

Jim

[Paul Hostetter]

All great advice so far, but I have to note that several of the best old Gibson mandolins I've worked on this past year were crapshoot purchases off eBay. And some of the most troubled had been bought from "reputable dealers."

Sometimes you just have to go by gut feeling. I completely understand why Pam wants to buy a nice vintage one.

[swampstomper]

Be very careful with so-called "reputable dealers" to check exactly what they mean with their guarantee or lack of it, buy-back policy, approval period etc. I had a very bad experience some years ago with one of the dealers listed above, despite all the fancy words and purple prose. Everything is fine until the instrument has a problem, and then you see what those words mean. In my case the neck almost immediately developed a serious warp; it seemed to me it had never been strung up since the 20's. Be that as it may, I finally received the comforting answer that I should blame God for the wood that went into the tree that made the mandolin neck....

[Karen]

Pam,
We got one of our old Gibson's from Ken Waltham (member of the Cafe). I'm not sure if he deals with Gibson's from the 20's or later but it wouldn't hurt to contact him. He was great to work with. In fact, at one time, he was on the look-out for one for my sister but then she decided not to pursue it at the time. Personally, I love the sound of the old Gibson oval holes. I sorta wish I would have played one several years ago when I first started - could have saved some $$ to spend on yet more old Gibson's.
Karen