Starting a band

[CLeRIK]

Me and some friends are just starting a band and we'll be playing Irish-style music mixed with rock to add some extra energy to the music.
The setup right now is:
Mandolin (me, but I might also play some diatonic harmonica and tin whistle), Fiddle, Bass, Drums (not bodhran, regular drums) and Ukulele/Guitarr.
I have been playing the mandolin since September 03 (mostly Irish music in D scale) and I am very satisfied with how I have been progressing.
However, my question is how the mandolin tend to be used in Irish bands/sessions. Shall I play the melody along with the fiddle or shall I play rhytm in chords (in that case open chords or?) or shall I pick the chords "tone by tone" to create som sort of "rhytm melody"?
All tips are welcome!
Also if you have any tips what we may need in the setup (like another melody or rhytm instrument or something) would be welcome to, anything which can help us start!

[dane]

Most mandolins I've seen at sessions and heard on CD's play melody, rather than chords/accompaniment.

For ideas, you should probably pick up a bunch of CDs of bands with lineups similar to yours, e.g., Shooglenifty, The Tossers, Flogging Molly, The Bushwackers Band, Spirit of the West, as well as maybe people like Solas, Lunasa, Anam, Kila, etc. who are a little more "traditional."

Don't see any problem with the current lineup, but you should keep the guitarist away from that uke :-). If you wanted to expand the lineup, the next 3 potential additions would probably be accordian, whistle/flute, and pipes. If you go with pipes, you'll want to add pipe-based bands like Seven Nations, Peatbog Faeries, and Black 47 to the list of CDs to listen to for ideas.

[CLeRIK]

Reply to dane:
I have the Tossers latest album (Purgatory, got it from the USA, you can't get theri CDs here in Sweden), I also listen much to the Pogues and I'm a great fan of Flogging Molly and have done some listening to Dropkick Murphys to even tough they tend to drown the folkinstruments with distortion . I also have heard some songs with Black 47.
I shall check out those other band you mentioned.
I would love to have Uillean Pipes in the setup but here in my town I know of nobody who play them (altough some friends of mine wan't to play bagpipes (I guess GHB or Swedish bagpipe) but it takes a while to learn and since we're pretty young (16/17) we don't have that high economy).
I talked to the fiddleplayer about accordion, he laughed at me and said that his fiddle wouldn't be heard a single bit with an accordion playing along, but maybe does that depend on the type of accordion? A tin whistle would be really nice, I'm trying to convince someone around to learn them
Why not uke? I guess the guitarr add some more "bass" and "heavy sound" than the uke, but we've tried with a uke and in fact it sounds pretty cool. Ukulele may not be that irish, was that your point?
Thanks for advide!

[Chuck]

Besides mando I play a little accordion. Last fall I played with a group where a fiddle player lit into that fiddle like the bow was a crosscut saw. With that high range of the fiddle, there was no question that she could be heard. No an accordion will not blast out a fiddle. She forgot a bridge on one number and we all had to shift immediately as she was the loudest in the group.

[CLeRIK]

Besides mando I play a little accordion. Last fall I played with a group where a fiddle player lit into that fiddle like the bow was a crosscut saw. With that high range of the fiddle, there was no question that she could be heard. No an accordion will not blast out a fiddle. She forgot a bridge on one number and we all had to shift immediately as she was the loudest in the group.

Haha, I go tell that to our fiddle player
I own a cajun-accordion but it is leaking air greatly, I wonder what it would cost to fix it...
It is hard to find people who plays tough, I don't know of anybody playing the accordion either... But it shouldn't be to hard to go from piano to piano-accordion should it?

[Kirby161]

In the mando i have listened to it goes like this

Irish- Play with the fiddle
Bluegrass- Progressions with the occasional solo
Rock- Do your own thing, thats how it is in Flogging molly, Dropkick murphys and Led Zep.

Of course there are exceptions to these, its just how i hear most of it.

[A Brown]

For this kind of mix, have a listen to some Lindisfarne - try their Promenade album - or anything by Run Rig (no mando but very much a traditional/rock blend). But why do you feel the need to add extra energy to Irish (or any other celtic) music? Have a listen to the Bothy Band or the Tannahill Weavers for high energy and pure traditional music.

Alastair

[danb]

It's not normally done.. but if you approach it thoughfully, it can sound nice. I wouldn't chop bluegrass chords and do "mandolin percussion", but I will happily do some bassline stuff or double-stop on the bottom 2 strings of the instrument. Open it up to all 4 very rarely for emphasis.. works better in a big/blustery session..

[CLeRIK]

A Brown:
The main reason for adding some rock elements (or play irish traditional in rock format, whatever it is) is because I have listened to various kinds of rock most of my life. I also know that a good snare or a little heavier drumplay can add so much to a chorus or special part of a song. Another reason is I know of one person in my surrounding who plays traditional music (the fiddle player) and he's mostly into Swedish traditional music.
I will try to find some material by those recommended bands.
I would very much enjoy to play plain traditional irish music (if it's energic enough, as I know it can be so I get your point), and I think some songs perhaps will skip drums and bass, we'll see about that. But I think fact is that if you like to play music with energy drums is a good instrument, don't very tough. I shall try to get them away from putting distortion on my mandolin and on the guitar and start to blaze on the drums, at least not in a mixture with irish music that is
Haha, Irishgrind, evil...

danb:
I haven't played much chords and haven't played mandolin for to long and have never before played a string instrument and I don't listen to bluegrass, so I don't really know what you're talking about, I would really like to get it explained tough!

[RolandTumble]

The classsic role of the mandolin in a bluegrass band--aside from the solos, or "breaks", as they're called--is to fill the sonic space of the snare drum. This is done with "chop" chords, (closed-position chords that are damped by releasing the left hand immediately after the chord is struck (and "struck" is the right term there)), played on the 2 & 4.

Booorrring (IMHO). Also "not the done thing" in any of the celtic musics. Also redundant if you've got a trap drummer in the band (there's no percussion, aside from the mando, in a BG lineup).

As for accordion--your fiddler probably would be drowned out, along with everyone except the drummer, by a full-size piano accordion (then again, this is the real function of sound reinforcement, to equalize the levels so that everyone can be heard. Even more important than just making it all louder). The classic Irish-style "box", though, will produce about the same amount of sound as the fiddle.

Nothing wrong with adding rock elements. I love bands that do that (though I also love the more traditional "pure drop"). Don't think of it as "adding energy", however--there's more than enough energy in the pure drop done right. Think of it as adding "a different kind of energy".

You could have fun with the Swedish elements, as well. I'm a big Hedningarna fan....

[dane]

RolandTumble makes a very good point. In addition to all the Caltic stuff recommended, you should certainly be listening to some of the Swedish and other Nordic players who have melded traditional Nordic folk music with rock and jazz elements: Hoven Droven, Väsen, Garmarna, Instinkt, Seras, Hedningarna, Annbjørg Lien, Phønix, etc.

[mad dawg]

For and he Waterboys don't use mandolin very much, but they employed it for a great effect in their classic "Fisherman's Blues".

[kmmando]

... on which you wil find Alec Finn on bouzouki! He's got everywhere that matters!

Kevin

[CLeRIK]

Ofcourse I have heard the most of those Swedish groups mentioned, but I'm not really a big fan of Swedish traditional music (mostly because it's to sad or mysterical or something, or perhaps because there's often no lyrics).
I think we will have sound reinforcement, so an accordion would work even if it's loud, but it would be nice to be able to play unplugged to, anyway we have to find someone who actually can and/or wan't to play accordion
I really appriciate all the response I get, thank you all so much!

[splatman]

We have a local group from Guelph, Ontario. Canada that have two Albums out with the type of music I think you are looking for. They are called "The Doletinkers" and have a web site with some short samples of their music, check it out.