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Thread: Chop chord

  1. #26
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (ApK @ Aug. 01 2007, 09:58)
    #I'd say a chop chord is probably the one technique that will let a mandolin fit in anywhere!

    This analysis based on my weeks of mando experience. Anyone disagree?
    ummm what?

    No chop chords in rennaissance, in classical, in old timey (unless emulating bluegrass), in old cowboy waltzes, in gypsie jazz, in most jazz (unless emulating bluegrass), in traditional blues (unless emulating bluegrass), in broadway and show tunes, western swing (unless emulating bluegrass), in celtic, in swedish and nordic traditions, in eastern european and klezmer, ...

    I suppose you "could" chop anywhere, but it doesn't really fit everywhere.

    I would say the one technique that will let a mandolin fit anywhere is good intonation.

    But that's my opinion.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  2. #27
    Registered User ApK's Avatar
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    In many of the styles you mention, a chop chord, having a predominantly percussive nature, with pitch and tone quality being secondary and subdued, could fit in anywhere someone might hit a snare drum, a tambourine, a rhythm stick, etc. The sound quality of a mando might not really fit and other distinctive sounds (like 'tremolo') might not either, but I'd think for even a mediocre player, a chop would give them something to do rather than sit out. I've never actually tried to sit in with a klezmer band or most of those styles, so I could be wrong, but I think if I did, and I didn't want to just be silent, then a chop is what I might contribute.

  3. #28
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    Agree that you don't hear true "chop" outside of BG, dawg, or western swing. Gypsy music comes close. Chop is basically selective muting and you can use variations of muted rhythm with anything. Lots of it popular in Irish music and blues for all picked string instruments
    Style is the sum total of your limitations

  4. #29
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (ApK @ Aug. 15 2007, 18:37)
    but I think if I did, and I didn't want to just be silent, then a chop is what I might contribute.
    It depends. I find that open chords often work, or even a tremolo on a harmony note. In celtic music, say a jig, an unchopped two string chord in a driving rythm is often useful, say an A on the G string and an E on the A string. A chop is one tool in the tollbox for sure, but there is so much more.

    I would warn anyone learning the instrument to develop a whole arsonal of tools.

    My Dad used to say that to the person with only a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  5. #30
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Mando-guy @ Aug. 15 2007, 13:28)
    My brother pointed out to me that he's seen some people just hold the chord shape on the strings and not press down on them sorta like muting the string would that work?
    I think its lame, but it probably happens a lot more often than is admitted.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  6. #31
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    I mean what did mandolins due for all those decades before bluegrass introduced the chop chord. My gosh, the mandolin was an old instrument when bluegrass was still in diapers.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by (JeffD @ Aug. 15 2007, 22:19)
    I mean what did mandolins due for all those decades before bluegrass introduced the chop chord.
    I think you mean centuries....

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Walter Newton @ Aug. 15 2007, 23:40)
    Quote Originally Posted by (JeffD @ Aug. 15 2007, 22:19)
    I mean what did mandolins due for all those decades before bluegrass introduced the chop chord.
    I think you mean centuries....
    I was trying for ironic understatement. Or ummm... something like that.

    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  9. #34
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    That link to the Bluegrass Lesson was very interesting. I have read it before, but got some things this time I didn't notice before. Unfortunately since I can't see the graphics, I still don't know what the fingerings for the G, C, and D chop chords are. Can someone give them to me in numbers? Thanks!
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  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by
    I mean what did mandolins do for all those decades before bluegrass introduced the chop chord
    They didn't chop.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Mike Bunting @ Aug. 16 2007, 02:08)
    They didn't chop.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    The chop chord is the most effective tool for ruining an Irish music session ever devised.
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by (firstchair @ July 30 2007, 12:22)
    Does anyone know of a site on the internet that has a free chop chord #sheet. Also what do you use chop chords for.
    DO NOT rely on chord sheets; find and compose your chords using your knowledge of their construction and the fretboard. And, regardless
    of idiom, examine the possibilities of three-note chords which allow much
    better control of voice-leading and certainly make enough noise to be chopped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by (Steve L @ Aug. 16 2007, 05:59)
    The chop chord is the most effective tool for ruining an Irish music session ever devised.
    Well now its been said.

    I have to agree much more than I disagree.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by
    DO NOT rely on chord sheets; find and compose your chords using your knowledge of their construction and the fretboard. And, regardless
    of idiom, examine the possibilities of three-note chords which allow much
    better control of voice-leading and certainly make enough noise to be chopped.
    Absolutely!! It is far better and more useful to learn and understand what you are doing that to just repeat something by rote. (This applies to more than just music).

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Mike Bunting @ Aug. 16 2007, 13:21)
    Quote Originally Posted by
    DO NOT rely on chord sheets; find and compose your chords using your knowledge of their construction and the fretboard. And, regardless
    of idiom, examine the possibilities of three-note chords which allow much
    better control of voice-leading and certainly make enough noise to be chopped.
    Absolutely!! It is far better and more useful to learn and understand what you are doing that to just repeat something by rote. (This applies to more than just music).
    Yeah! #Why learn from those who came before? #Better to reinvent the wheel every time!



    Seriously, though, theory and figuring stuff like this out is great, but I think it's ok to learn to have some fun and get motivated first. #IOW, don't RELY on chord sheets, ok, but don't be afraid to use them, either, if you want to. #Life's hard enough, no?




  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Steve L @ Aug. 16 2007, 05:59)
    The chop chord is the most effective tool for ruining an Irish music session ever devised.
    Exxxxcelllennnntt!!!!
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  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by
    Quote
    DO NOT rely on chord sheets; find and compose your chords using your knowledge of their construction and the fretboard. And, regardless
    of idiom, examine the possibilities of three-note chords which allow much
    better control of voice-leading and certainly make enough noise to be chopped.

    Absolutely!! It is far better and more useful to learn and understand what you are doing that to just repeat something by rote. (This applies to more than just music).

    Yeah! Why learn from those who came before? Better to reinvent the wheel every time!



    Seriously, though, theory and figuring stuff like this out is great, but I think it's ok to learn to have some fun and get motivated first. IOW, don't RELY on chord sheets, ok, but don't be afraid to use them, either, if you want to. Life's hard enough, no?
    The key word here is "rely"

  19. #44
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    A lot of time and energy is spent looking for or arguing about where the front door is to our mando-world. The reality is there is no one front door, ya just gotta jump in, flail around with what ever tools you can find, and swim out to the edges. Eventually you will want to learn chord theory, chord shapes, chord melody, any and all of it. But at the beginning just jump in.

    I know the instructors will talk about developing bad habits, (they are like a bed, easy to get in and hard to get out of), but I would say lets get some habits going, good or bad, and then correct them. Bad breath is better than no breath.

    Nothing motivates the search for understanding like trying to solve a problem. But you have to dive in and develop some problems, some curiosity, and then go and get the details.

    Just my take on it.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
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    Hello. I'm new and this is my first post. I will admit to reading only the first page and a half of this discussion.

    Chop style chords are found in jazz music a LOT. Check out the rhythm guitar style codified by Bucky Pizzarelli. A percussive chord on the back beats (2 and 4 are NOT downbeats) with pitch being of less importance than rhythm. In fact, Bucky/John and others in the Pizzarelli tradition only play one note of the chord (3rd or 7th) and let the rest of the chord be kind of ambivalent. Helps the soloist out as well.

    Anyone interested in plucked string traditions that HASN'T checked out those guys is encouraged to do so. Truly fabulous jazz guitarists.

    And now back to my beginner Mandolin practice. . .

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Curtis @ Aug. 21 2007, 10:37)
    only play one note of the chord (3rd or 7th) and let the rest of the chord be kind of ambivalent. Helps the soloist out as well.
    Don't let this get around, a lot of BG mandolinists insist that it be the exact notes of the chord that not be sounded during the chop!

    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    funny....

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    So anyways. . . . there's no free online chop chord sheet? I'd really like to start working on more than G, C, and D before my new book/DVD order arrives.

    Nothing with all M and m and 7 chords?

  23. #48
    Gilchrist (pick) Owner! jasona's Avatar
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    Jason Anderson

    "...while a great mandolin is a wonderful treat, I would venture to say that there is always more each of us can do with the tools we have available at hand. The biggest limiting factors belong to us not the instruments." Paul Glasse

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    What about trying the chords right here on the cafe:
    http://mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/chords/ch.pl
    As to playing one or two notes of a chord, I have been wondering when somebody would bring this up. The two low notes of the chord is all I play 90% of the time when chopping at a loud bluegrass jam. When your pick hand does not have to travel such a long distance it allows you to play much faster, something I learned from Frank Wakefield. When playing at this fast tempo the idea is to pop the bass strings hard, make them rattle on the frets (for a nanosecond) make it sound like a percussive, trebley, metallic snare drum. You will be faster, louder, and the "chuck" will turn into a "clank" that people will actually hear. Of course different rules apply when playing a slower, sweeter song, or when playing into a mic, or a quiet intimate setting, or in a recording studio, etc.

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    Hmmm...a "clank", you say. I must listen for that.

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