The poor girl is in denial and resisting our intervention.
The poor girl is in denial and resisting our intervention.
Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band
the poor girl is looking for a sale and just doesn't care in my opinion. There are plenty of ignorant mandolin buyers out there you know.
Keith
Mountains are holy places
and beauty is free (runrig)
Nope. My bad. I was looking at the closeup of the reversed F4 headstock displayed earlier in the page.Originally Posted by (mrmando @ Aug. 25 2007, 18:41)
I don't know if it's been mentioned earlier in this thread, but in keeping with the reversed peghead, the case seems to be some strange reversed design as well- the handle is on the "points" side of the mando instead of the scroll side. I've never seen one like that before (not that I'm much of an expert).
Rick
There have been pictures posted of at least one ggenuine Gibson left-handed f-style that had a reversed peghead IIRC. I don't know if there was a batch of them or if the seller could have miscommunicated with the floorsweeper at Gibson to such a degree, but I don't think it's fair to characterize her as a moron or con artist just because she doesn't know as much about mandolins as we do.
Ignorance is bliss...
Something a bit less controversial...
I don't think other posters are doing that. What bothers them is that the seller stubbornly "sticks to her guns" when there's a broad consensus of informed opinion that her description is inaccurate. If the seller were willing to admit that there's some doubt as to the instrument's authenticity (as I've seen several other eBay sellers do), her position wouldn't be generating as much flak.Originally Posted by (markishandsome @ Aug. 26 2007, 20:28)
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
How right you are. If after some several dozens of us telling them it's a total fake you would think a red flag would go up. Even a strong headed person would get cold feet after that many responses. The least they could do is spend $35 towards an authentic appraisal from Gruhn's or Mandolin Bros. to put it to rest. If they are right (which we know they are not) they stand to gain up to $4000 if it were the real deal. And if not they got taken on a trade in and should learn from their inexperience in dealing with fake "Gibson" mandolins cause the world of full of them. Heaven forbid if they get in a fake "F5"
This thing is so far from the real thing it's funny in a way. The quality of workmanship is good enough for the builder to build his own using his own designs and would have been better to just leave the top blank if he didn't want to be known. Did we decide if this was the same seller that tried to pass this off some 7 months ago?
If so they've had time to get a 2nd opinion. If they were the buyers of the last sell they need a 2nd opinon. I usually tell these type hard heads to not take my 45 years experience in dealing with Gibson mandolins but for a small fee they can get a professional written appraisal.
Anyone else see funny parallels between this thread and the Chinese Flatiron thread?
Is this thing worth anything just for being... old? Is it old?
Doesn't really look all that old.Originally Posted by (delsbrother @ Aug. 26 2007, 22:54)
When were those tailpieces made available? 70s? 80s?
Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.
Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!
Lyon & Healy Wood Thormahlen Andersen Bacorn Yanuziello Fender National Gibson Franke Fuchs Aceto Three Hungry Pit Bulls
Poor girl nothing, there is some deception going on if she continues to insist that Gibson have verified the instrument.
Dave H
Gibson A 1917
Paul Shippey oval hole 2001
Eastman 615 2005
Flatiron 2K 1981
Folk Art and a TALL tale to go with it !!!!!
David B
Style is based on limitations.....Music is based on repetition. Mark Twang
hmm....yes. nuff said.Originally Posted by (delsbrother @ Aug. 27 2007, 01:54)
from seller:
"Actually the other two sellers were us both times - we deal mainly in used & vintage electric guitars so we rarely see vintage folk instruments and never anything this controversial. The first time we listed this mandolin we listed it just as a Gibson mandolin but we pulled it because of the numerous "experts" that informed us that it was a fake - the second time we listed it as a handmade copy but eBay pulled the auction because apparently it is against eBay's Vero policy to list an item as a "copy" of another item. In the intermidiate months we have researched the mandolin off and on and in recent weeks contacted Gibson to see what they thought - we spoke with Bob Burns and sent him photographs (the same photographs in the auction) - he says it's Gibson. We felt that if the company that made the instrument claims it as there own who else needs to approve?"
Thank You-
Jennifer
Sounds sketchy to me - anyone know bob burns?
I could agree with that... anybody know Bob Burns?Originally Posted by
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
i googled him and found some epiphone/gibson board that mentioned bob burns as someone from gibson who confirmed something or other....
could they possibly have released this monster? i'd like a second opinion. big joe?
If this is in reality a Gibson then do the same rules that apply for postage stamps apply here?
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
More information.
OK, I sent Jennifer a note via eBay messaging asking for the name of the person she talked to at "Gibson" who claims this is a factory product. #I expected to be ignored.
But here is the answer I got:
"Hello Bernie:
We talked with a seasoned Gibson employee by the name of Bob Burns. Thanks- Jennifer "
Do any of #you know this seasoned Gibson employee and better yet why he thinks a whole batch of Gibson's went out #with the headstock reversed, and the points wrong and the wrong wood and...etc. #Maybe this is a urban rumor within the Gibson factory
If it were true of course there might be some value in the thing. Of course it is surely not true.
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
Sorry ignore my last post I did not see the earlier mention of Mr Burns.
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
I do not know a Bob Burns. Never heard of him. He did not work at OAI. He was not a manager while I was there. I have no idea who he might be, but he certainly did not have the position that would make him an expert on Gibson mandolins, past or present. As everyone has seen, there are serious issues with this instrument. While using mahogany or birch may well have been done, and the truss rod not being there would not be an issue since the truss rod was not invented until 1921. It is the other issues like the headstock, the scroll, the bridge is not correct, the tailpiece base is a recent one and nickel plated. In addition, the neck joint is not correct. When all these issues are put together, it seems highly unlikely this is a Gibson product. Oh...another thing. Gibson does not validate instruments in the way she mentioned.
Have a Great Day!
Joe Vest
Thanks Big Joe. No doubt this guy if he was there is no longer there or that's the story you will hear. I emailed the seller the same info. that they should at least put this issue to rest and pay for a certified appraisal from Gruhns or Mandolin Bros. What gets me is you know they have had dozens of people look at in person. The inlay alone is not even close to being a Gibson teens cut. And if Gibson should or did reverse a headstock it is not going to be that far off the pattern(well they did get pretty far off on some '69 F5s)but back then no way would anyone from the factory have been that far off. The shape and size of the fingerboard almost to me looks like an H2 mandola. Even if the label had fallen out there still would be evidence of the factory order ink stamp in the inside. And if this were a real Gibson it's been refinished and there has been no mention of that. From the photos anyone at Gibson would tell them that bit of information which would effect the price. While this may remain a mystery to the seller(owner)it's no mystery to us!
thanks joe. the seller seems like a reasonable person to me and i feel she will likely update the listing at the very least or remove it all together. i don't know why anyone with a brick and mortar store and several other items on ebay would risk the negative feedback and reputation for fraud for a few hundred bucks. if it was me, i'd represent it for what it was, take the hit for not doing my homework in advance fo acquiring it (as is likely the case), and be done be done with it.
There are a couple of mentions of Bob Burns on Gibson forums, responding to customers about amps and Les Pauls and such. If Gibson really did ship some lefties back in the day, I can well imagine Mr. Burns reporting this to the seller, and the seller deciding that this means her F2 is authentic.
I sent an e-mail to Gibson Customer Service with a couple of pics and a link to the auction. We'll see what they have to say. I'm still waiting to hear back from Miss Jennifer about this instrument's factory order number. And the "winner," if there is one, will certainly get polite notes from Cafe members about the instrument.
I think Jennifer may be naive, but she seems well-intentioned and is trying to represent the mandolin in good faith. But as Bob Burns himself said, the best-laid plans of mice and men (and Jennifer) gang oft agley.
Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.
Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!
Lyon & Healy Wood Thormahlen Andersen Bacorn Yanuziello Fender National Gibson Franke Fuchs Aceto Three Hungry Pit Bulls
Did anyone check the back of the headstock? As the rest of the headstock is backwards maybe the cover is on the back.....Originally Posted by
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
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