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Thread: FAQ on big muddy mandolins?

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    I did try search and found some information, but none on the "violin scale" length. After some diligent digging on Google, I found this link to Big Muddy Mandolins. It has a complex table of model #'s, wood choices, and violin scale length instruments. Of course I could call and ask, but I wanted to get the opinion of our serious MAS experts.

    1. what are the sound differences of the wood listed? Mahogany, Maple, Walnut, Rosewood [all with spruce tops], and All Mahogany. Anyone can describe the tonal characteristics of these woods, and which you prefer?

    2. there is a mini-mo (is this for kids?) and hurray! a violin scale length one [short fingers here]. Being a violin player, I've been having trouble with my Eastman. Is this the answer? Has anyone played one? Is the tone compromised from the usual 14" scale length?

    Any other opinions? I read that these are flattops and backs. How does the tone compare with the arched styles?

    Thanks in advance!
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    Call MIke D. and explain your concerns. He a good guy.

    BigMuddy


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    thanks, I'm sure he is a good guy. But last time I called a good guy for mandolin information I ended up ordering one.

    I was hoping fans of Big Muddy can tell me which one they like. Just procrastinating on calling Mike...
    Eastman 805D Two Point F Hole Classic
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    M@ñdº|¡ñ - M@ñdºce||º Keith Erickson's Avatar
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    It was always refreshing to hear from the Mid-Mo owners when Mid-Mo was going strong. They were so positive and they were the best salesforce that Mid-Mo had.

    Now that they are now Big Muddy, we don't hear anything like we did during the Mid-Mo days.

    I would love to hear a review or two from a Big Muddy owner
    Keith Erickson
    Benevolent Organizer of The Mandocello Enthusiast

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    Registered User bradeinhorn's Avatar
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    i was very impressed with them out at mandolin bros a couple months back. can't give a full review as i didn't spend too much time with them. i'm sure others have....just a wait...
    www.bigdrawbluegrass.com

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    Registered User powercat's Avatar
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    Since they, Big Muddy / Mid-Mo, have had to start all over again, their website has become quite minimal, and doesn't give you much information. One hopes that when / if they get back up to speed, they'll be able to publish at least as good a website as they used to have.
    From the link previously mentioned (Big Muddy) they appear to still be making most of the models they used to. I am a beginning mandolin player who owns a Mid-Mo M-11w (Wide neck, all mahogany). A number of people have told me what a great sound it has for what it cost. Love that satin mahogany finish too.
    John

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    I've had my MidMo M1 for about a year. I've been back to "The Music Emporium" a couple of times to test drive other, more expensive mando's but haven't found one I like more than the M1. Easy to play, good sound. It's my first stringed instrument. The differences seem to be mostly cosmetic. A good looking mando is not high on my list. Small hands? From my piano days long ago, stretch dem fingers. I'm currently trying to play some OM so maybe some compromizes might be necessary if your hands are mitt challenged.

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    They really should get a good website up and running. It would be hard to tell how many folks have heard about them, went to their site and gave up. In my view, it would be better to have no website than one that offers little in the way of options and information.

    And, fwiw, I really hope they get back up on their feet and do even better than they did under the MM name.
    ...

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    Registered User Eric F.'s Avatar
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    I love my Big Muddy M-4, the one with the rosewood back. I bought it from a store with a good selection of oval hole mandos, including several other Big Muddy models. I preferred the M-4 to the more expensive mandolins there, including one that was more than 2 grand. I liked the M-11 - all mahogany - Big Muddy next best. In fact, I considered getting it as well, but cooler heads prevailed.

    Talking about tone is difficult. But I'd say this mando is dark and complex with a bit of snap to it. It sounds great played with a guitar. The M-11 had a funkier sound to me. It seemed to be begging to have some blues played on it. The M-4 made me want to play O'Carolan.

    The M-4 and M-11 are consistently my favorite Mid-Mo/Big Muddy models for tone. I can't comment on the violin scale length, but I also suggest contacting Mike Dulak for more info. I think he's been too busy making mandolins to worry much about the Web site.

    These mandolins are very plain looking but sound great. They will tend to lack some of the "cut" of an archtop, but I've seen a bluegrass band where the mando player had a maple-backed Mid-Mo. Hope that helps.

    Edit: I doubt the scale length is inhibiting your playing. I think you just need to get used to it, though I've been wrong before. I'd think your hands would have to be amazingly tiny to be the problem. Remember, the mandolin is a pretty small instrument.




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    True... I need to work at it, but it's frustrating to be able to play Bach Sonata and Partitas on the violin, double and triple stops, then can't reach the exact same chords on the mandolin. And if I get tendonitis, my teacher will kill. I'm supposed to be preparing for a recital playing Beethoven violin concerto and I'm over here on Mandolin Cafe instead... one wonders why, I think it's escapism because I know I'll mess up on my recital... <sigh>

    My fingers are pretty short, my pinkie (4.7 cm). My index finger is (6 cm), middle finger (6.8 cm) and the distance across my palm is 7.5 cm. Anyone have shorter fingers than me? Okay, I'm not giving up!
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    Well, I've been less vocal only because I haven't found a catch phrase anywhere near as nice as " Go Mid-Mo! ".

    I do have a Big Muddy mandola I picked up from another cafe member. I can easily say it is NICER than either of my Mid-mo's. It sounds great, looks great, plays great. Man! That thing sounds rich.

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    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Here is a link to a review of tonewoods for guitars. The characteristics for Big-Muddys should be similar.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonewood

    Mike Dulak told me he likes the rosewood the best. It is the loudest. I think it is the most "guitar-like," which is not a bad thing. I think of mahogany as a "dry" sounding, without a lot of overtones, which I like. I have a flat top with walnut and it tends to have a sweeter sound, compared to the others. The all-mahogany is just going to have more of that wood's characteristics that one with a spruce top. But those are all just words. You should go somewhere that you can try each one. One thing to know about tonewood choices that have kept model lines alive: For every choice, there are people who think that is the best choice. It is all a matter of personal taste and choice.

    The "Kid-Mo's" or "Mini-Mo's" are strictly beginners stuff IMHO. They sound tinny to me. They have bolt-on necks and they seem more "mass produced" than the regular line. They might be good travel mandos. I can not see any advantage to a smaller scale, except for a child.

    You should call Mike. He is great.




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    M@ñdº|¡ñ - M@ñdºce||º Keith Erickson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Benignus @ Aug. 27 2007, 14:29)
    Well, I've been less vocal only because I haven't found a catch phrase anywhere near as nice as " Go Mid-Mo! ".
    Ah yes I do remember that catch phrase from long ago.

    Just my opinion Michael...

    ...I always thought of you as the unofficial top sales person for Mid-Mo.

    I'm glad to hear that your Big Muddy mandola has done right by you
    Keith Erickson
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    I can't help with ideas on the scale length but go to Folk of the Wood video samplers to hear different back/top wood combos. May not be the best recordings but you can hear differences between models.

    Jamie
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    Anyway I did talk to Mike like you'all suggested. He's a fiddler for 30 years also and is the only guy making violin-scale mandolins these days. He's sending me out a demo violin-scale made of rosewood. He said he likes the rosewood because of tonal complexity. I think the next thing I'll do is mosey over to the folk of the wood videos and get a tonal comparison there.

    I still like to hear what owners say, even if opinions are all over the place. Usually, violins are made of maple back and sides, with spruce top. It's pretty cool that mandolins can be made of all different woods.
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    Registered User Eric F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    He's sending me out a demo violin-scale made of rosewood.
    Mike rocks, doesn't he?

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    Big Muddy roll.

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    M@ñdº|¡ñ - M@ñdºce||º Keith Erickson's Avatar
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    One thing that I did find surprising was that most of the Mid-Mo owners were proud on how "loud" their mandolin played.
    Keith Erickson
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    Oh yeah. That's true, and they project well, too. My M-0 is not overly loud, but I have played it unplugged at several (non-bluegrass) acoustic jams. I had no trouble getting my sound out, and after one session a friend actually said I was 'stepping on people' by playing too loud (I didn't expect to hear that, and I backed off afterwards).

    What flattops DON'T have is "bark" and "chop" the way an F-holed archtop has those qualities. But, IMO it would be foolish to pass over a Big Muddy because of that caveat. It's more a of non-issue than a real issue in my experience.

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    Registered User steve V. johnson's Avatar
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    The wood thing is tough without a bunch of experience... There are various discussions in the Builders' area about "tone," "loudness," et al, and there's some stuff in there about tonewood sounds. One generality (dangerous, those, and contested at almost every turn...) is that the top and bracing make more difference than the back & side woods, and this is somewhat more true in guitars than in mandolins.

    It is a major difference in appearance and a much more subtle difference in tone.

    I had a maple Mid-Mo octave mandolin thru here and it was sweet. I've heard a Mid-Mo octave that was rosewood b/s and I liked it better, but it had been played a -LOT- more, so I don't know if it was a fair comparison.

    I've played four Mid-Mo mandolins, two maple, one mahogany and one rosewood. Not all in the same room, tho... _I_ liked the rosewood, but I'm a guitar and big bouzouki guy, so I have a bit of a prejudice.

    I can't honestly say that they sounded radically different from one another, as I recall it.

    As others have noted, this is not an instrument with a traditional "A" nor "F" mandolin sound, and it has another character from many other flat-tops, too.

    Good luck with your sample from Mike, and it's just wonderful that he does a violin scale model!

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    Okay thanks, I'll report back when I get it. I'm not trying to be funny, but I still don't know what a bark sounds like on a mandolin. Maybe I ought to go to a shop and ask for a demo, so I'll know. Does the Eastman f-hole I have bark? If so, how do I make it bark?
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    Dangle a bone in front and see what happens.

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    Bark is subjective, of course. But I'll try to explain since I used the term.

    Bark is a quality of sound you might hear when you overdrive an archtop. By overdrive I mean just that, putting more energy into the soundboard than it can handle. Overdrive a flat-top and the notes will lose definition, and paradoxically, might even sound wimpy and thin. Overdriving an archtop, OTOH, tends to compress the sound, producing a mid-range "honk" during the initial attack. That "honk" is what I meant by "bark".

    "Bark" might also simply mean an aggressive, out front, loud, tone from a mandolin.

    Does your Eastman 2-point have "bark"? It certainly might, but you'd to tell us what you hear. It also might have it, but perhaps you never coaxed that tone out of it. I wonder if it is a meaningful quality to all, after reading above about the Bach and Beethoven you work on. I would think one would rather not hear Bark on Bach!

    (sp)




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    I'll take it! JGWoods's Avatar
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    Waste deep in the Big Muddy

    Finger length- hmmm my pinky is 7.5 cm, my index is 10 cm- definitely got big hands. then again i'm 203cm tall
    Be yourself, everyone else is taken.
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