Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 44 of 44

Thread: Humidifiers

  1. #26
    Registered User rnjl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hudson Valley, New York
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Hello all, I have had good luck using cheap plastic salt and pepper shakers from the supermarket- they are round like film cans but somewhat larger, with holes already poked in the cap, of course. I drilled them full of holes and you can get more sponge into them than a film can, but they fit under the headstock of a guitar or mandolin better than a soap dish, in my experience.

    Anyway, I am very intrigued by these cigar humidifier that use the same crystal thingies that the expensive case humidifiers do, but all the websites that sell them say they keep a closed space at 70%.

    I'm not sure if that's just advertising hype or what, and yes, of course, I can get a case humidifier, but how does a company make a claim that their little crystal gel bead thingies keep the humidity at a certain percent, and is it true?

    thanks,

    Neal

  2. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Chappaqua, NY
    Posts
    207

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by
    I'm not sure if that's just advertising hype or what, and yes, of course, I can get a case humidifier, but how does a company make a claim that their little crystal gel bead thingies keep the humidity at a certain percent, and is it true?
    It is true. All of these devices use a 50/50 mix of distilled H2O and propylene glycol. The PG absorbs moisture when the relative humidity is above 70% and sheds moisture when the RH is below 70%. I make my own huniidifiers for my cigar humidors using oasis foam, an audio cassette case with holes in it and the mix of water and PG. I got the PG from a web site, the name of which escapes me.

  3. #28
    Registered User rnjl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hudson Valley, New York
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Wow, that's interesting. I meant, of course, I can get a case hygrometer, not humidifier. OK, based on your experience with the cigar crystal or jelly thingies- ie., the PG, as you call it- am I correct in thinking that even if they have a 70% set point for absorbing or shedding moisture, it really doesn't matter that much, because it's not that different from a sponge in a soap dish, in that the crystal thingies will just throw off moisture and it's our job to see that the guitar or mando isn't soaked?

    I can't see a downside to these, but the upside is that they are less likely to drip than a sponge.

    OK, enough about this, back to my Total Monroe iPod loading project.

    Neal

  4. #29
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default

    What tells you 'humid' guys that your Mandolin needs more or less humidity ?. Unless you know the precise absorbent properties of the wood from which your Mandolin is constructed,how can you decide if it needs more or less moisture ?.
    The makers usually use wood that has been dried out to make it workable,why would you want to add moisture back ?.
    I am NOT trying to stir up an argument here - i simply don't know the mechanics of the humidifier / de-humidifier approach.
    Under what conditions do you need to do one or the other ?. Is it just down to the regions of the USA where you guys live ?. I am fully aware that the USA being such a vast country has widely differing climate zones ie.Florida as against Wisconsin. Here in the UK,it's rare indeed to get such large variations in weather
    conditions. I understand what you are doing,i don't understand the reasons why. I always thought that provided the instrument wasn't subjected to extreme conditions
    of drying or moisture,that it would be ok. What's the explanation,
    Saska
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  5. #30
    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    8,076

    Default

    For me, the explanation is that many instrument makers, based on experience, highly recommend that instruments be kept in humidity range from around 40% to 55% RH. My references for that include the Martin guitar company and multiple violin makers. It is reasonable to assume that the same principle applies to mandolins. These builders recommend that humidity range because older instruments that have not been kept that way show problems as a result: sunken tops, cracks, etc. Over-humidification can cause problems also.

    I have never seen one of those RH recommendations that was dependent on "the precise absorbent properties of the wood." I can measure relative humidity fairly easily and humidify or de-humidfy to stay in that range. So please tell me: How do you measure "absorbent properties of the wood" and what would you do differently if you could measure it? Is there scientific data or even compelling expert experience for that? If you can't easily measure it and then take useful action based on it, then it is an irrelevant concept IMHO.

    I can't speak for every area of the US, but in my area, Missouri, I have no problem in the warmer half of the year. But in the colder half, I cannot get my instruments up to 40% no matter what I do. I have a whole house furnace humidifier, a room humidifier and a case humidifier and it can still dip to 35% in January. So I do the best I can. If anyone thinks humidification is unnecessary, that's fine. Don't do it. I'm not gonna argue. I'll continue to do it for my instruments, because I find the recommendations to humidify to be credible, based on builders' anecdotal, but long-term, experience.




  6. #31
    Registered User mandowilli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Taos, NM
    Posts
    458

    Default

    For me travel is the issue. My mandolins are quite happy with the open windows, high temperatures, and relative humidity at home in Florida. But I am taking them to Arizona for a month in the winter. Placing moisture in the case is prudent.
    It all comes down to what your instrument is acclimated to. Mine are used to being in a very damp climate and that is what I will try to replicate. As far as the humidity here at home? It is out of control!
    willi

  7. #32
    Registered User PaulD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by (saska @ Nov. 22 2007, 02:34)
    What tells you 'humid' guys that your Mandolin needs more or less humidity ?. Unless you know the precise absorbent properties of the wood from which your Mandolin is constructed,how can you decide if it needs more or less moisture ?.
    The makers usually use wood that has been dried out to make it workable,why would you want to add moisture back ?.
    I am NOT trying to stir up an argument here - i simply don't know the mechanics of the humidifier / de-humidifier approach.
    Under what conditions do you need to do one or the other ?. Is it just down to the regions of the USA where you guys live ?. I am fully aware that the USA being such a vast country has widely differing climate zones ie.Florida as against Wisconsin. Here in the UK,it's rare indeed to get such large variations in weather
    conditions. I understand what you are doing,i don't understand the reasons why. I always thought that provided the instrument wasn't subjected to extreme conditions
    of drying or moisture,that it would be ok. What's the explanation,
    Saska
    I've never seen any information posted on the "absorbant properties" of different woods... I don't think it matters. All woods will absorb moisture until they reach EMC (equilibrium moisture content). The rate at which a particular piece wood will reach EMC varies based on the wood species and how it's finished. You can slow down moisture exchange, but short of saturating the wood with epoxy or some other substance you can't stop it. If you would like to learn more about this concept, there are a number of good woodworking books that discuss it but "Understanding Wood" by R. Bruce Hoadley (Taunton Press) is probably the best.

    Many builders adjust their shops to a "middle of the road" RH and let the wood acclimate before they build with it. Wood that has too high or low an EMC will sit stickered until it has absorbed or lost enough moisture that the builder trusts it will be stable.

    I'm no expert in the care and feeding of fine instruments, but from what I've read and folks I've talked to I think it's a numbers game. You can't go wrong keeping your instrument in a 40% to 50% RH environment. Even if the wood was a little dry when the instrument was built it will do just fine absorbing that much moisture. I don't think anybody that knows about working wood would build instruments with material that was too green... or at least I hope not!

    Depending on the grain orientation and width of a piece of wood it can shrink considerably with loss of moisture. Problems may not show up for years but eventually the wood will crack or glue joints will fail from being under tension. I have repaired a few instruments that have suffered from dehydration and it's amazing how much you can get cracks to close up if you humidify the instrument before repairing the cracks and open joints.

    Conceivably I think a top or back could buckle from too much humidity, but in reality I think the instrument would have to be subjected to being soaked in water for that to happen. A more likely problem I've read about but not experienced is mold growth in instruments kept in too humid an environment for an extended period of time. I live in a desert... keeping the humidity up is the biggest problem here.

    pd
    "... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams

  8. #33
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default

    Thanks for that Paul - It still leaves the question of HOW people know how much or
    how little moisture they subject their Mandolin to.Purely putting a Mandolin in a 'humid' atmosphere doesn't necessarily mean that it will humidify at any specific rate. It could take weeks before it reaches whatever 'optimum' humidity it's owner perceives it to require & how is that optimum state recognised as being achieved ?.
    If you consider that all woods absorb moisture at a rate somewhere between that of blotting paper & that of granite,how do you know which end of the absorbency scale your instrument's wood is ?.
    I fully understand re.the 40 to 50 % RH environment,but unless you know how quickly or slowly the wood of your instrument absorbs moisture,you can't determine
    exactly how long it will take to humidify.
    While i understant the concept of humidity in instruments,it seems a very in-exact science & begs the question whether it's advisable to do it at all,unless you happen to live in an extreme climate,such as paul above,
    Saska
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  9. #34
    Registered User Jonathan Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    New Bern NC
    Posts
    1,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by (Amanda Lyn @ Oct. 06 2007, 07:30)
    My house is heated with a woodstove, which really dries out the winter air. My fret ends can even grow longer. I think what is best for me is to keep my instruments and instrument-making woods in one room behind a closed door, and using a humidifer - one of those units that you sometimes see which sits on the floor and goes about its work. This way, instead of adding water to a bunch of tiny devices I can be done with it by adding water to one appliance.
    Does anyone else use this method?
    I use one. I keep it in my closet with multiple instruments. It's easier to humidify a small room, and even easier to humidfy one where the door is always closed. I use a small unit with a humidistat which turns the unit off once the set-point is reached.

    I keep one instrument out in it's case. For this instrument I keep a kithchen sponge in a ziplock bag in the acessorie compartment.

    Stephanie, one thing you could also try just to add a little moisture into the air for comfort, is to take a big pasta pot full of water and put it on the woodstove.
    And now for today's weather....sunny, with a chance of legs

    "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." - Abraham Lincoln

  10. #35
    Registered User PaulD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,881

    Default

    Saska; if you really wanted to get that precise you could get a moisture meter and probe around the instrument to check it's current state. That would be overkill since it would change daily and the probes on the meter would play hell on the finish. As I stated, I'm no expert, but I think the idea is to keep the humidity within a reasonable range as much as possible. I can't imagine an instrument self destructing overnight because the humidity dropped down to 3% for 2 days. I'm just trying to keep my humidity up around 40% and trust that the instruments will fluctuate within an acceptable range. By the same token, if I lived in an area with a 60% or 70% humidity I wouldn't worry about the instruments if the dehumidifer were down for a day. I don't panic when I take my instruments out to a jam or on the road for a few days and I don't care to know what the specific MC of the wood in my instruments is today.

    To your point about blotter paper vs. granite... I suspect the softwood top fluctuates more than the hardwood back on most instruments. Wood primarily loses/gains moisture through the end grain. Ignoring whatever differences there are between hardwoods and softwoods, most instruments pretty effectively seal the end grain with binding and finish, but the top has the added disadvantage of having holes punched in it which increase the amount of end grain.

    pd
    "... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams

  11. #36
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default

    Thanks again Paul,i'm glad you took my post in the true manner that it was meant.
    I'm not saying that you 'humid' folk are wrong & possibly due to our pretty stable temperatures in th UK,no real extremes ,apart from last year when it got as high as 103 deg.F in my backyard,our house temperatures don't fluctuate much.
    On a personal basis,i just keep my instruments in their cases,in a fairly stable room temperature. I do have a humidity gauge in each of my rooms downstairs,but that is because i live in a 130 year old house & dampness in old walls can be a problem,which thank goodness has not yet arisen. The gauges indicate an RH of 50 in my front room & just over 40 in my living room which is the one we use most.
    So,i can honestly say that my Mandolin cases are nicely humidified,
    Saska
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  12. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Posts
    133

    Default

    I live in MI in an old home. Humid in summer but in winter it's hard to maintain even 30% RH inside. I have 2 tested hygrometers. One goes inside cases and the other sits out. To add moisture, I humidify my cases. Soap containers & sponge work well in my guitar cases. The 35mm film container & sponge works well in my mando cases. Each fits securely under the neck near the heel and has plenty of holes in the exposed sides. I dampen the sponges every 3-5 days and my cases average around 50% RH this way. My in-case hygrometer is a $24 Oasis I got from Elderly and I'd recommend it. If your endpin loosens in winter, it's past time to humidify.
    MWM

    Mark in West Michigan

  13. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Hampton NJ 08827
    Posts
    1,502

    Default

    My experience has been that if you've had an instrument for 2-3 years and have experienced no problems ... then keep doin' what you're doin' and forget about the "numbers".

  14. #39
    Registered User Jonathan Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    New Bern NC
    Posts
    1,582

    Default

    I got real lax about humidifying this year so far. I took possession of a new/used mandolin two weeks ago. When I got it, the action was perfect and it was playing great. Each day I got it out of it's case I had to tune it up about a quarter step. I chocked this up to the change in the weather here (my hands/skin started to get dry about this same time) and having to let the instrument acclimate. About three days ago, I noticed that I was going to need to bring the action up a little, but decided to wait and threw one of those water viles in the accessorie compartment of its case.

    Last night I brought it to a jam and another picker commented that my action seemed low. After awhile I went to put my mando in it's case and noticed that after I removed it, the strap was hanging. I looked around for the end pin and found it still wedged into the strap slot. Having narrowly avoided a catastrophe, I spent the rest of the night playing sitting down.

    I got home late, but got the little green snake into the 'f' hole and put a damp sponge in the accessorie compartment. When I woke up this morning, I tuned it up and found that it was a quarter step sharp. I will never be casual about humidifying my instrument again and I'm very thankful that nothing bad happened.



    And now for today's weather....sunny, with a chance of legs

    "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." - Abraham Lincoln

  15. #40

    Default

    I am using a Holmes Humidifier. Has a 4 gallon output. Large enough for my music room and instruments. I think it sold for $39.95 marked down to $29.95. Perfect.


    Make a joyful noise.

  16. #41
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Hampton NJ 08827
    Posts
    1,502

    Default

    "I looked around for the end pin and found it still wedged into the strap slot. "

    New York heat? I lived with that for over 15 years. You might try some peg resin or wrap the end pin with one turn of teflon tape ... it's non-adhesive but it'll add some girth.
    And ... always check it for fit in this dry season.

  17. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Piedmont North Carolina
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Humidifiers

    Re-opening this thread to get more information on what to look out for in too low/high temperature and humidity. Many thanks for what you've stated so far.

    Live in the South where humdity is king. However, currently, the outside November humidity is 24%.

    * We supplement gas pump for 1400-sq-ft house with a Jotul-brand woodstove for the kitchen, living room, home office.
    * Keep a 2-gallon soup-pot of water on the woodstove.
    * Store my mando in this area noted.

    Several questions about the ill-effects of humidity and of temperature on a mandolin:

    1. What are the signs of too-low humidity?

    2. What are the signs too-high humiditt?

    3. What are the signs of too-low temperature?

    4. What are the signs too-high temperature?

    Thank you.

    Lee Bumgarner
    bzleebee
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-bee
    https://www.instagram.com/mandoleebee

    I value inclusion, diversity, and egalitarianism (y’all).

    “I care for how clever, capable, and agile you are
    when it comes to learning new rules, adapting, and
    finding innovative ways to solve problems
    in a totally novel environment.”—Michael Gear, “Outpost”

  18. #43
    Registered User J Mangio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Willow Spring, NC
    Posts
    563
    2021 The Loar LM700 VS

  19. #44
    Resident Hack
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    295

    Default Re: Humidifiers

    Quote Originally Posted by bzleebee View Post
    1. What are the signs of too-low humidity?
    2. What are the signs too-high humiditt?
    3. What are the signs of too-low temperature?
    4. What are the signs too-high temperature?
    All four answered by this (NFI)
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z77FK4C/
    What I play
    2021 Skip Kelley Two-Point
    Eastwood 'Ricky'
    Morgan Monroe RT-1E
    Epiphone Genesis guitars
    Various Basses

Similar Threads

  1. For those with in-room humidifiers
    By bienkow1 in forum General Mandolin Discussions
    Replies: 6
    Last: Mar-31-2008, 9:09am
  2. Humidifiers
    By Brandon Flynn in forum Equipment
    Replies: 19
    Last: Jan-20-2008, 8:38am
  3. Case humidifiers ?
    By manicmando in forum General Mandolin Discussions
    Replies: 2
    Last: Apr-22-2007, 11:05am
  4. Humidifiers
    By jlyhd28 in forum Equipment
    Replies: 7
    Last: Mar-23-2005, 8:00am
  5. Room Humidifiers
    By NYClassical in forum Equipment
    Replies: 20
    Last: Feb-08-2005, 1:15am

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •