Pinky on the pickguard

[Bruce68]

Hey All, I've been teaching myself to play with the "Hal Leonard Mandolin Method Book" by Rich DelGrosso. He says to "Brace your hand against the mandolin top with your wrist resting on the bridge and your little finger supporting the weight of your hand on the pickguard" The thing is, I've never seen another player do this...ever. Not even in photographs. I'm a bit confused, can anyone shed some light?

Bruce68

[mdlorenz]

I'll chime in, although I'm no expert...

I'd assume that most people will say that when starting it's best to learn without depending on any sort of "crutches" as possible. Technically speaking anchoring a finger, or anything anywhere for that matter will somewhat limit your movement. I often will "brush" my fingers on the pick guard, & often find the heel of my palm slightly anchored behind the bridge, but never do I purposely anchor a finger on the pickguard.

That being said, there are many many different right hand techniques. Just look at Monroe (somewhat tight fist), McCoury (loose fist), O'Brien (VERY open hand). So there is no "Right way" out there, just what ever you are comfortable with, & whatever isn't going to handicap you down the road once you become more technically advanced...

[Dan Voight]

Glad to hear your playing the mado! First, you have to figure out if you like plaing with your fingers out or fingers in. Resting your pinky will limit your playing, I wouldn't get in the habbit of doing that. You shouldn't really focus on anchoring your picking hand anywhere. I let my wrist bones brush the strings behind the bridge and thats about it. This way, you can go from struming 3-4 strings to picking a line on one string. You cant so that while anchoring your pinky... Good luck!

[jaydee]

I'll second what Dan said above, and add that by not anchoring anywhere you'll improve your tone. And you'll be free to move your right hand towards and away from the bridge to get a wider range of sounds.

[Bruce68]

Thanks guys, I do feel that anchoring my pinky slows me down, makes you wonder why he says to do that in the first place? I think I'll just do what I'm comfortable with and to heck with the braced pinky.

Bruce

[Nick Triesch]

Adam Steffy rests his fingers on the pickguard. He is one of the best of the best. I rest my fingers just a little bit on my fingerboard extention. I can still move very quick and the sound comes out the same no matter what. Took a workshop from Mike Marshel and he told us that it works for some folks to rest their pinky. He said do what feels best to you. Nick

[Jonathan Peck]

Bruce, ALOT of great players, both mandolin and guitar brush/rest their pinky on the top or pickguard. I think it's just how they learned and they aren't going to change as it doesn't seem to limit their playing one ioda.

I think the biggest thing is not to anchor your palm on the bridge, it really restricts free motion of your hand and wrist.

While I don't anchor my pinky, I am a big palm rester. I started on electric guitar in my teens and palm muting was a good technique for the style that I played. Not so for acoustic instruments and unfortunately this habbit is really hard to break

I'm in the process of breaking the habit now. It's takeing some getting used to, but the benefit is worth the effort. One small step backwards, two giant steps forward....yee ha!

[Curtis]

I rest my pinky on the pickguard as well but I'm also a newby. Rich Delgrosso is a darn good player. Got his CD. I've seen pictures of other mandolinists resting their finger as well. I would LIKE to not do it but I just miss strings so much. Maybe someday I'll focus on breaking the habit.

[Landgrass]

When I put an armrest on my mandolin, I stopped posting the pinky and resting the wrist behind the bridge. It just put my entire forearm and wrist in a much better position. You might give that a try.

[woodwizard]

Sam Bush rests his finger down there without a pickguard. You can see the worn area on Hoss.

[billkilpatrick]

i USED to put my little finger on the bridge - even developed a little callus - but as of ... today! ... i don't - simply because i find it a major inhibition to fast, fluid crosspicking.

[jasona]

Lightly sweeping your loose last few fingers (not holding the pick naturally!) on the pickguard is a good way of keeping a check on your hand position--but loose is the key! I think a full, static, anchor is bad in that it introduces rigidity into the system.

[Tom C]

Without a pickgaurd I would find my pinky against the side of the fretboard. With pickguard, my pinky kind of brushes the pickguard. I do find playing freehand that my pick wonders and I miss strings when playing at the top of my ability. I kind of mix them up when playing.

[Bruce68]

My Brothers...you guys are a wealth of information and insight. It's one thing to learn an instrument alone, but quite another when you have a community such as this to draw upon. God bless the Internet!!

Bruce

[AlanN]

Butch has a very stout tremolo technique, even and deliberate. There is no mistaking what he is doing when he does it. And yes, he puts da pinky down (at times).

[mando bandage]

I'll second the "brush, don't post" motion on the pinky pickguard issue. I let it brush lightly to assure that I'm keeping the pick moving in two planes instead of three. This is on recommendation of a very good flatpicking guitarist who saw me moving the free floating pick hand in and out (away from the mandolin and back toward it) far too much. It does make a difference.

R

[Alex Fields]

I think it's a bad idea to plant the pinky anywhere. The main reasons have already been mentioned. As to all the players who do it...don't know what to say except that their playing seems to suffer from it. I think I can pretty often tell whether someone plants just by listening to them without ever seeing them because they get a more rigid right hand which negatively affects tone. The fact that some players like Adam sound pretty good even when they plant is more a testament to their ability than to the efficacy of planting...I imagine those players would be even better, and be able to play a wider variety of things well, if they didn't plant.

I don't see how anyone can seriously deny that planting imposes limitations on hand movement and freedom. Or that limitations like that are bad.

[JeffD]

I don't see how anyone can seriously deny that planting imposes limitations on hand movement and freedom. #Or that limitations like that are bad.

I respectfully disagree. I have seen advice both ways, and the arguements get very heated.

I have seen videos of great players who plant, who don't plant, who brush, who don't brush, and some who switch depending on the tune.

I have always been a planter/brusher when playing a melody, and free floating (or what ever you want to call the opposite of planting) for chords or ryhthm type back up.

I plant whether I use a bowlback, or an arch top, whether it has a pick guard or not.

My melodic playing is sharper and more precise when I plant. I have better control over the emphasis I assigned to each note. So for me it seems to work out.

Now I suppose one could argue that if I could free myself from planting I would sound even better. That is one of those if.. if.. arguements that goes no-where. If I had the genetics to be a superstar mandolin player then perhaps I would be motivated to try it. But since there was no evidence of musical prodigy back when I was in my 20s, becoming a floater 20 years later isn't likely to change things.




Now as to planting when there is no pickguard - yes it will probably change the finish over time. As I never intend to sell my instruments, I look forward to them showing the evidence of my playing. I don't get exercised over wear and tear from normal use.

[Curtis]

Jeff, since I'm in the same spot as you couldn't you please please spend a week floating to see if it makes your playing better. That way if it doesn't I didn't waste time trying it. Haha. I tried picking through some tunes last night floating and it didn't work out. Of course that is no where near an accurate experiment. I think a week of technical practice with floating would be a better guide to know if it would actually be better for me or not. . .

[Bob DeVellis]

Clearly both too much and too little restriction of hand movement can be bad. Missing strings as a result of too little restriction is bad and not being able to execute complex moves because of too much restriction is bad. I think people find their own solutions and any alternative to "the usual way" feels really strange after a pattern has developed. Having said that, I think it's more common for people who anchor to have a positive change when they stop anchoring than for people who don't anchor to benefit from suddenly planting their pinkie. But either method can give great results. Actually, I think an argument could be made that there are times when anchoring increases precision (maybe very controlled tremolo) and other times when not anchoring increases fluidity (maybe crosspicking). Perhaps a true master can adapt and use the appropriate method for the appropriate musical passage, changing on the fly as needs dictate. I'm not trying to disagree with anyone's preferred approach, just trying to point out that there are many paths to the same endpoint.

[Celtic Saguaro]

I think most of us who've put down a pinky for a *long* while find very little problem moving. For a beginner it could be a problem, though. Watch Evan Marshall play. He plants for intricate picking and lifts to get double and triple stops. He moves the pick all over the picking area. If it's effortless it's no problem. If you are putting any pressure on the top it is more likely to cause difficulty.

On the other hand I don't like resting on the bridge or playing with my arm too parallel with the strings. For me those do make movement difficult. There too, I think it's rigid position, and tension that cause more problems than the position itself.

[jmcgann]

I know an excellent player who really wants to stop posting the pinky, but after 20+ years of playing, simply can't break the habit.

Yes, excellent player! He can hear an improvement in tone when he doesn't post and plays slowly, but getting things to feel natural would take a lot of slow work.

There are many many players who play excellent music in spite of less than optimal technique. I don't think that means it's a good excuse to copy them, however; what they make work for them might lead you up some blind alleys.

Common sense and physics and research and old fashioned sit-down-and-practice can help re-wire your brain (literally) to improve your technique.

[billkilpatrick]

i'm having some success in trying to keep the pinky out of the way - i've become a pinky swisher instead of a pinky plonker. one thing that helps me is playing with a preposterously large pick (a fender bass, i think) - familiar habits are broken with unfamiliar picks.

[Alex Fields]

Missing strings as a result of too little restriction is bad

I don't think you will miss strings as a result of too little restriction...I think you will miss strings as a result of not having developed enough right hand control. A lot of players, myself included, play with no restrictions on right hand and have no problem hitting the right strings consistently.

Everyone should at least learn to play without any kind of planting, and learn to play well that way, before trying planting again to see which they prefer. You can't really speak fairly of playing with a free right hand until you've learned to play that way proficiently. I found it helpful to plant early on but fortunately I decided to learn to play without it and now I find planting does nothing but hinder my right hand. I have enough right hand control that there's no reason I would need to plant pinky for more--really it just gives me less control because it forces my hand to move a little more rigidly. Lightly resting your palm on the strings below the bridge is a better way to get stability if you need it.

[CES]

You can do it both ways...while I'll agree that free-handing it seems intuitively "better," I tend to float when strumming/chopping and use my pinky as a guide when picking. I feel more comfortable this way, in part because of the Scruggs/Banjo influence, and feel like I have more control of my strokes. I also don't have a pickguard...some folks seem to feel that it's all or nothing, but playing requires constant adjustment, and if I need to move my hand or float to improve my ROM for a break, well, then, I move it. The pinky is a reference point, rather than an anchor, for me. Same thing for the palm on the bridge approach.