F-style tuners with gear above post

[toomanystrings]

I'm looking for high-quality tuners for my F-style with the gear above the post. #On all of the better tuners I see these days, the worm gear that's on the shaft with the tuner button is below the string post. #The only ones I can find with the configuration mine have are cheapies. #The ones with the worm gear below the post won't work because of where the holes are drilled in the headstock. #Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[MichaelJ]

Reverse-cut are the norm... You have a choice of cheeper or plug and drill new holes. I just finished restoring mine, and the plug-n-drill route was not fun! It did turn out Ok, though.

[Michael Lewis]

You can swap the button shafts on Schaller, and also Waverly. That would re position the worm above the spur gear. Make sure your headstock is drilled for this arrangement as the shape of the headstock may not work well with the change. Also, Schaller machines have longer shafts than Waverlys, which means they need different drilling patterns. Just some things to think about before spending a bunch of money.

[toomanystrings]

You can swap the button shafts on Schaller, and also Waverly. #That would re position the worm above the spur gear.

I didn't realize that it was possible to remove the button shafts and swap them around. #That would solve my problem, given that the shafts were the right length for my mandolin.

Thank you.

[Salty Dog]

I reversed a set of Schallers a while back. #If you decide to do that look out for the transparent bearing on each post. #Also, it's a good time to lubricate (very lightly) the parts while they are disassembled. #The problem that I ran into was that the bushings for the Schallers required a larger hole than the ones they were replacing, as they are heavier. #My luthier who installed them for me had a step-down drill he had made for exactly this purpose as enlarging an existing hole can be a tricky process. #I did save the cost of the luthier reversing the tuners as it is tedious and took about an hour.

[toomanystrings]

The problem that I ran into was that the bushings for the Schallers required a larger hole than the ones they were replacing, as they are heavier. #My luthier who installed them for me had a step-down drill he had made for exactly this purpose as enlarging an existing hole can be a tricky process.

Do the Schallers have a different diameter string post, so that the new bushings are necessary? #I think that there is a high probability that the holes are not a standard size on my mando, given that it has non-standard tuning machines. #However, the posts might be close enough. #I have a Czech mando, made by Capek.

[Salty Dog]

I don't know if the string posts are larger or not as I wanted the heavier Schaller grommets installed as the (cheaper) ones that came on the mandolin kept riding up the post and that annoyed me. #I thought the heavier grommets would stay put and they have done that so they must not flex as the post turns.

[Mike Stateler]

A follow up question about reversing the Schallers. #I have an Alvarez A800 ( I know...I know, but #1 poor people have poor ways, and #2, I'm really a b@nj@ player) and I am thinking of doing this. #If you reversed the tuners from side to side and installed them upside down after reversing the shafts ( am I correct in my thinking here?) would you need to buy Shallers that were not reverse cut in order for the tuners to turn in in the coventonal (modern) direction? Has anyone done this with an Alvarez or any other PAC rim import? #Thanks for humoring me. # # # # # # # # # # # # #Mike

[evanreilly]

Stew-Mac also has sets of bushings which are a lot smaller than the Shaller ones and the 'vintage bushings' fit over the Shaller string posts just fine. #A lot easier than re-drilling.

[uncle ken]

A while back I replaced the tuners on my 29 Fern with the Schallers. I had to do the reversal as mentioned here and it worked great. The screw holes even lined up with the originals. The one tricky thing I had to do was to match each bushing to its hole by putting it on a lathe and shaving off some material. I didn't want to enlarge the holes in the instrument since it's old and valuable.

[toomanystrings]

Hey, Uncle Ken,

I wonder if you would do us all a favor and go through stepwise what you did to reverse the tuners. When you were done, did the tuners turn the right (usual) way?

Thank you.

[uncle ken]

For the worm gear to be on the top you have to swap the two tuner assemblies. This puts the longer shafts at the bottom now. To get the shafts in the correct order from top to bottom you now unscrew each slotted screw from each spur gear and then remove the spur gears. Now you can pull out each shaft and worm gear and swap it with the correct one. Swap the bottom one with the top then swap the two middle ones. That's it, the turning direction is always the same.

[toomanystrings]

Thanks, Uncle Ken.

[uncle ken]

It's been awhile since I did this. Looking at the back I can't remember if I swapped the left side with the right side or if I just turned each assembly upside down and moved the shafts so that they entered from the opposite side. I'll try to attach a picture here to show how it looks.

[uncle ken]

All I know is that it works one way or another. I think I had to mess around with it for awhile to figure it out. It's probably been 10 years since I did it. This is the 3rd set of tuners for this mandolin since it was made.

[toomanystrings]

The threads on the worm gears slant in the same direction as the ones on mine, so the whole thing ended up in the right place when you did it. I think I'll get some Schallers and go for it. Thanks for posting the picture.

[toomanystrings]

Wait a minute. Reverse cut tuners have a right-hand screw on the button shaft (the worm gear is RH threaded like a regular screw). The old tuners on my mandolin have left-hand screws. That means I need Schallers that are not reverse cut.

Looking in the Stew-Mac catalog I find that the Grover F-style do not have reverse cut gearing, while the Schallers and the Gotohs do. That means that to get the results that Uncle Ken did, I have to get the Grovers. The question is then, do the Grovers allow you to disassemble them in the same way? I will try to find out and post the answer.

[uncle ken]

I just looked at the picture on the Stewart-MacDonald page of the schallers. The worm is backwards from mine so I must have regular cut. Maybe that's what was available when I got them. My tuners turn like any guitar or modern instrument so if you used those new ones they would turn backwards. You might contact Dexter Johnson at Carmelmusic.com who sold me mine and who seemed up on doing the switch. Maybe he has some of the older tuners still in stock.

[Mike Stateler]

Janet Davis Music lists Shallers in both nickle and gold with reverse cut and non-reverse cut gears. #I didn't look, but I suspect FQMS does also.

Just checked, FQMS does not list them. They are $60 from Janet Davis-$5 more than the reverse cut set for the gold plated versions.

[toomanystrings]

Thanks, Banjo40. I ordered some standard cut and I'll post results. No guarantee I'll get to it right away, especially if the screw holes don't line up, but I'll get to it eventually.

[toomanystrings]

OK. I received the "standard cut" Schaller tuners that I ordered from Janet Davis Music. It is very easy to remove the button posts after you take off the screw that holds the pinion gear to the tuner shaft. It is then very easy to switch the various button posts so that you get a set of tuners with the worm gear "above" the pinion. I made sure to keep the pinion and worm gears together so as not to lose any matching that had been done by Schaller. I'm not sure that any was done, but I wasn't sure it wasn't done and it didn't cost me anything to keep the pairs together.

Oh, and they work great.

Thanks to all who replied with suggestions and pictures. It was all very helpful. This is one of those stories that ends, "... and they lived happily ever after."