Very first km-1000 on ebay?

[theloar]

Has anyone seen this? He says it's the very first KM-1000.eBay KM-1000
What do you think?

[dan@kins]

I'm always leery of statements made on ebay auctions.

[sgarrity]

Especially at a price like that!!

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm sure that Scott Zimmerman (Desert Rose) will eventually see this message and comment.

[theloar]

Is there a way to know for sure that it's the first one?

[MikeEdgerton]

Sure, Desert Rose lives in Japan and is friends with Sumi. I'm sure he'd just ask him.

Check out this thread. Scroll down about 18 messages.

If you're really interested in buying that mandolin you might PM Scott and ask a favor. If all you want to do is prove that it isn't what it is I wouldn't bother him. He'll weigh in eventually if he wants to.

[8ch(pl)]

Who cares?

[jim simpson]

Maybe it will be the "1st" on Ebay to sell for that much!

[jk245]

I don't know why anyone would want to purchase a so called 'first production sample' at $3800
when you can purchase a new one with first purchaser warrantee for $1500 or less delivered.

[weleetkaoutlaws]

[Desert Rose]

Well... here we go again.

I am at this VERY minute sitting with my phone confirming this with Sumi personally

Folks IF the small details of the post are important RUN because none of it is fact

First as we discussed a few months ago about another mandolin, in 1985 Sumi was a member of a TEAM, the team leader was the famous Tahara san NOT Sumi. Sumi was not building complete mandolins in 1985 he was doing specific jobs on each mandolin under the direction of Tahara san. Yes he quite likeely carved the top and most likely carved the scrolls and did other fine detailed work but in no way was he directing anything. Sumi didnt build complete instruments until years later

And the claim that this is number one is TOTALLLY without any backup, Sumi says as he has always said the serial numbers were so screwed up they mean nothing. If it was number one that designation can only be confirmed by Richard Keldsen personally, as no one in Japan did anything or knows anything about any mandolin being number one

As well NO mandolin EVER, repeat EVER hung in the shop in Maruko to act as a guide PERIOD, thats stupid, his comment. The ONLY thing EVER used as a sample in the entire history of the Maruko shop up to this day were the hand carved top and back plates for the Dawg. John Monteleone personally made a top, braced, and back and these were sent to Japan for use as a sample. To this day these top and back hang on the wall!!, Dusty and forgotten but still there, I saw them last saturday. Havent been touched in likely ten years

Further the peghead overlay and fingerboard are EBONY not rosewood, this can even be seen in the photos

Sumi offered that it may be possible that this mandolin, while NOT the first or anything of the sort may have been something hanging on the wall at Saga USA, first shippment lot ? he cant confirm this of course but it may be a small thread of something true to explain an old Japan KM 1000 with the made in Japan sticker still in this condition.

But none of the details mentioned in the sale can be backed up AT ALL by Sumi himself and most can be denied specifically by he himself, end of story

Not saying this may not be a great mandolin. It may neede some playing to wake it up but it could be a great picker. Price is the issue without all the fluff in the story to go with it

Scott

[Desert Rose]

Well... here we go again.

I am at this VERY minute sitting with my phone confirming this with Sumi personally

Folks IF the small details of the post are important RUN because none of it is fact

First as we discussed a few months ago about another mandolin, in 1985 Sumi was a member of a TEAM, the team leader was the famous Tahara san NOT Sumi. Sumi was not building complete mandolins in 1985 he was doing specific jobs on each mandolin under the direction of Tahara san. Yes he quite likeely carved the top and most likely carved the scrolls and did other fine detailed work but in no way was he directing anything. Sumi didnt build complete instruments until years later

And the claim that this is number one is TOTALLLY without any backup, Sumi says as he has always said the serial numbers were so screwed up they mean nothing. If it was number one that designation can only be confirmed by Richard Keldsen personally, as no one in Japan did anything or knows anything about any mandolin being number one

As well NO mandolin EVER, repeat EVER hung in the shop in Maruko to act as a guide PERIOD, thats stupid, his comment. The ONLY thing EVER used as a sample in the entire history of the Maruko shop up to this day were the hand carved top and back plates for the Dawg. John Monteleone personally made a top, braced, and back and these were sent to Japan for use as a sample. To this day these top and back hang on the wall!!, Dusty and forgotten but still there, I saw them last saturday. Havent been touched in likely ten years

Further the peghead overlay and fingerboard are EBONY not rosewood, this can even be seen in the photos

Sumi offered that it may be possible that this mandolin, while NOT the first or anything of the sort may have been something hanging on the wall at Saga USA, first shippment lot ? he cant confirm this of course but it may be a small thread of something true to explain an old Japan KM 1000 with the made in Japan sticker still in this condition.

But none of the details mentioned in the sale can be backed up AT ALL by Sumi himself and most can be denied specifically by he himself, end of story

Not saying this may not be a great mandolin. It may neede some playing to wake it up but it could be a great picker. Price is the issue without all the fluff in the story to go with it

Scott

[MikeEdgerton]

Well there you have it. Let the buyer beware. Thanks Scott.

[f5loar]

First run or not it is the 1000 not the 1500 or Dawg model.
I would think getting that much on a 1500 or Dawg would be stretching it a bit. Am I wrong and out of touch with today's 80's Kentuckys?

[evanreilly]

Smells & looks like a smoke & mirrors ebay special. Priced way too high, IMNSHO.

[steadypluckinaway]

I like the notion that Sumi & crew placed the "Made in Japan" sticker on the back of the peghead prior to "hanging it on the wall". #

[theloar]

I let the seller know about this thread and he added a note in the listing: KM-1000
Sounds like it's got a story behind it?

[MikeEdgerton]

From the auction:

"There have been some people disputing the fact that this is real, I obtained this mandolin from Alan Liu; President of AXL Musical Instruments. This is what he told me: Sumi made this for Saga Japan. Tom Hosokawa got it and kept it at his house for 20 years. I (Alan) got it from him 5 years ago. Any more questions about this mandolin please feel free to ask!"

[Desert Rose]

Well now we get some truth

I know all the names mentioned, I consider Alan beyond reproach as far as being honest and if he said anything its repeat what he was told

take a second and add up the years

The sale hype stated that it was made in 1985 and hung on the wall for reference during production. Kentuckys were
made until 1993 so if Tom Hosokawa had it twenty years and Alan got it five years ago, as they say you cant get there from here

So as I said and Sumi guessed this is an early 1000 from some non discript shippment, it remained in Japan until five years ago

NO connection to being the first unless Tom Hosokawa cares to put that in writing

Not hung on the wall, THAT WAS NEVER DONE as Sumi has stated

Sounds like at best Tom was weaving a yarn to Alan and Alan only passed on what he was told

Sumis name was used by the seller on ebay with no consideration tocheck out the facts before invoking the name of the man being used to bring the price up

And still nobody has bothered to contact Sumi to verify things

Without a letter from Sumi or Tom Hosokawa this has no bona fides and is just another 1000

Scott

[theloar]

take a second and add up the years

...He could've rounded up

[Desert Rose]

The whole story seems to have been rounded up

[musicgearclub]

Hello everyone, I'm the person on eBay selling this mandolin.

Taking Desert Rose's claims into consideration I called Alan, President of AXL, and he gave me the number of someone who could verify this information: Steve Patrino, President of The Music Link (and a very nice guy). Steve, who was working at Saga during this time, confirms that this mandolin was one of the first five built but can't say for sure if it was the very first. I've adjusted the listing accordingly. This mandolin is a real deal collectors item, contrary to what has been said on this forum.

Thanks, I just wanted to clear that up.
-Chuck

[Desert Rose]

Chuck

I wish you would clear it up completely.

WHY the insistance on connecting Sumi to this? Yes it helps sell the thing but as I stated, comming directly from Sumis mouth as I wrote the information above, Sumi directed NOTHING in the shop when this mandolin was built, had never built a complete mandolin by himself at this time.

This is public record and public knowlege. Here is the Frets article from those days and it lays things out clearly

http://www.vintagemandolin.com/kentu...iclepage1.html

TOTAL control was under the famous Tahara san no one else, and Tahara sans son was at least as important as Sumi at this time

There was four or five other builders that did just as much as Sumi or more on this instrument

Maybe you are unaware of the internet happenings but Sumis name is dropped all over the place when any mandolin with the Kentucky name is for sale regardless if they were even built in his shop, there is a KM 800 on ebay now that drops his name and that mandolin may have been madeat the Kasuga factory three hundred miles away

It turns the name Sumi into a comodity... and there is no compensation offered to Sumi san for the use

He does not appreciate it I assure you

Scott

[MikeEdgerton]

Scott, thanks for the update and honestly I don't think anyone is ever going to pay anywhere near the Buy it now price, even if it were what the seller says it is. I've been wrong before but I'm guessing that since this one hasn't seen a hit up to now it won't. I see there is a "Make an offer" button as well. If it had anywhere near the value one of the bottom feeders would have at least tried to get it it at a lower price for resale. It hasn't even seen that.

[mort]

I agree w/ Mike. #Most anyone that even knows what a KM-1000 from the 80s is, knows about what they are worth. #Buying the 5th one of anything, well it's not like the first of something. #

And in the clear things up department: The discription of the Above mandolin is from one of the modern versions of the KM-1000, not the description from the '80s.