Had a km-630 for about two years.
GREAT instrument for the $$$$$$. Sold it to a fiddle player who is learning the mando and she is very happy with it as well.
Had a km-630 for about two years.
GREAT instrument for the $$$$$$. Sold it to a fiddle player who is learning the mando and she is very happy with it as well.
No...YOU stand back.
After their initial move to China, Kentucky had some quality issues and lost a lot of market share. I believe some of this was due to the other brands coming on the scene as well. I've talked to Don Moser a few times in the past year or so and they have been putting a lot of effort into improving the line. As stated, the new KM-250 is a major improvement over the older KM-250S, which was nice to begin with. They brought back the KM-160 and the oval hole KM-170, then the KM-505 and upgraded most of the F-models as well. I have had a few KM-1000 mandolins though my hands and these seem to be getting progressively better with each new batch. I have two new ones here now and I am amazed at the quality for this price range.
Any hype is well deserved at this point. Saga has been busy with the line and aside from a few issues here and there, they are putting out a great value in mandos.
Robert Fear
http://www.folkmusician.com
"Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
" - Pete Seeger
Kentucky's from the 80's were built in Japan.....at a later point they were built in Korea, and now in China.
The only ones I have experience with are the Japanese built instruments. There was input from both David Grisman
& John Monteleone in the Dawg models & some of that rubbed off on the other high end models. There were some darn
good mandolins built in that era, but not all were stellar.
I remember one time seeing the Dawg Quintet in the late 80's and the whole band was playing Kentucky/Saga instruments.
Kinda cool and what better endorsement then the Dawgs band.
The problem with those 80's is you just don't see them for sale very often and they are up to the price of the new ones(KM1000)or more and to me the new ones are better.
Wow thats saying a lot f5! What makes you say that the new ones are better? I would like objective stuff of course but as we all know there is small amount of subjectivity going on with these things. I have followed your posts and respect what you may have to say about the new 1000s. How about this idea that the latest batches generally are "better" than the earlier ones. What is your connection with this brand? Thanks in advance.
In my case, I am a dealer... So naturally, you should take what i say with a grain of salt. I am basing my opinion on the fact that I have had my hands on a few of these now and the latest ones have cleaner workmanship and better tone (from what I recall) than the first (China made) KM-1000 models I have had. It makes sense... there have not been a whole lot of these made, and even though there is a huge waiting list, Saga has not went nuts with production levels. I would assume that the makers are getting better and working out the details.
Robert Fear
http://www.folkmusician.com
"Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
" - Pete Seeger
<John Moore had an 80's KM1000 or that's all I ever saw him with. He may have owned the 1500 too.>
It was quite a few years ago, so it may be my error. I'm pretty sure the mandolin I mean is the one he usually played, so I expect we're talking about the same instrument. I thought it was a 1500, but it could have been a 1000. I don't think there were a lot of differences between them visually. I might have just assumed he played the top-of-the-line model.
Whatever it was, he sure made it sound great.
The big difference between the old 1000 and old 1500 is the 1000 was a flowerpot and the 1500 was a fern pattern.
1500 generally had more figure on the maple, different binding and gold parts. At the time( I had a 1500) these were no doubt the best import mandolin out there. If was far superior to Alverez,Ibanez,Washburn,etc. But it really lacked being compared to Loar like quality and sound. But these new 1000s are very Loar like in quality and sound.
Now you are comparing $1500 to $200,000 here so expect some differences. I'm a pretty good judge of when a mandolin just feels right and these feel just fine.
John Moore's Kentucky had the fern inlay, so that would identify it as a 1500 model. He played it for years, until Gibson gave him a new F5 3 or 4 years ago. I don't know if it gets any playing time now, but he played it on a number of recordings presently available.
It's more Brand name promotion, thats what Saga music Group does , contract out production , import , distribute to dealers, advertise, cover US warranted problems .
Kentucky and Gitane, neither Bourbon Nor Cigarettes.
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
Saga has managed to keep the Kentucky line unique though. A lot of imports are obviously the same mandolins with a different name on the headstock or some minor spec changes. The Kentucky's are different.
More often than not, Saga has pioneered, and others follow. In many areas, Saga is responsible for kicking off huge changes in the marketplace. If we look as their history, they are first to market on a regular basis.
Gold Star Banjos
Kentucky mandolins
Cremona Violins
Regal Dobros (Asian)
Blueridge guitars (current versions)
Gitane Guitars
Each of these brands would raise the bar on imports. Soon after, others would follow.
Robert Fear
http://www.folkmusician.com
"Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
" - Pete Seeger
A few weeks ago I went to our Bufallo Bros sister store in San Doego called Old Time Music. They have a ton of high end mandos and guitars. Anyway the manager, Tom handed me a nice Kentucky F type after I played everything in the store . Collings, Gibson, Flatiron ect. and it was just about the best one on the wall. And Tom knew it. That's why he had me play it. I looked at him and said "mandolins are strange beasts and he answered back, "Yes they are" . What I have been finding out over the last few years is that many times a much less expensive mandolin can sound a lot better than the big boys. The Kentucky was about $1400 and it sounded like $7000. Nick
ntriesch
The Kentucky 675 that was made in China 3 or 4 years ago with the Flowerpot was a major-league lemon. The 675 made in Korea was great and something that I would still recommend to someone if they can find one in the < $800 range.
Not only Gold Star banjos, but those with the very Saga name MIJ in the 70s and 80s were excellent masterclones.
I hesitate to make a purchase of a new instrument made oversees these days, but good lord, it's hard to beat the quality of these Blueridge guitars, Kentucky mandos, et al. in this price range.
Mandroid
Sorry for the record most of what you said was just plain wrong
While Saga does oem source their ground breaking Blueridge production ( to the top factory in China), and some other things Saga OWNS their own factory in Qingdao as well
I was the first outsider ever to visit and work there and helped set it up in the beginning including designing the entire finish departments and process, as well as the first assembly shop
The entire first crew of workers ALL had college degrees!!!
Saga has a San Francisco supervisor working in Qingdao full time, THATS why the 1000 are improving so fast
Just keeping the facts straight
Scott
I really like Kentucky mandolins. I have found them to be pretty consistant and a really good value. My first mandolin was a KM350S, which I believe is now a discontinued model. Not sure why though.
The only thing that I DO NOT like about them is the name. The name just sounds like they are trying to hard to be "American" or like they're trying to hard to sound "Bluehgrassy". I just don't care for it and have never liked the name. I do, however, like names like Eastman, since it reflects the origin of the instrument and tells me that they are not ashamed of it, where Kentucky sounds like they are trying really hard to get away from the Made in China stigma. But to me it just reinforces it.
FWIW
...
When the Kentucky brand originated the instruments weren't built in China. So I doubt the name was intended to hide a Chinese origin.
Stephen Perry
Japan, then Korea, then China. Still, all asian made.
I'm still trying to figure out how the other name listed identifies it as Chinese. It looks more like it's from Rochester to me.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Ah yes, #Rochester NY, home of the Eastman School of Music, named for George Eastman, founder of Kodak and funder of the school...Originally Posted by (MikeEdgerton @ Mar. 15 2008, 23:49)
I have often wondered whether Eastman Instruments, which I believe started out making orchestral stringed instruments such as violins, violas and cellos, picked the "Eastman" name to get some identification with an American institution that's produced thousands of orchestral string players.
On the other hand "east man" could mean a person from the Far East, e.g. a citizen of China. #
As I have posted before ad nauseum, I do find it a bit off-putting when instruments made in Asia are given "down home" American names -- Kentucky, Blue Ridge, Galveston, Lone Star, Morgan Monroe, etc. #And even more so when they are labeled with the names of former American manufacturers, such as Epiphone, Flatiron, Washburn, Regal, Recording King and so forth. #I have a tad more respect for companies like Yamaha, Takamine and Sumi who are up-front about their origins.
But reiterating my prejudices just types me as a crabby oldster who can remember when Epiphones were produced in New York, later Kalamazoo, and Guilds came from Rhode Island, Fenders from California, and Flatirons from Montana. #Had to walk three miles uphill to and from school, and we loved it...
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
Let's stop and examine that. Do you think the Chinese see themselves as being from the east? Maybe they see the Americans as being from the east. Is America the center of their universe as well? Just a thought.Originally Posted by (allenhopkins @ Mar. 16 2008, 00:07)
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
An interesting point given brands and sourcing from all over. I don't know that there's any way to do it well. I've tried having names appropriate to the place of origin, such as a famous mountain peak. "What's that mean? Why not give it a normal name?" A number "Why doesn't this have a name I can remember, a number is just cold." Something easy to remember. "Why don't you name it with a foreign name, it's a foreign instrument." So there's probably no right answer. When a brand's products are going to come from several countries over time, how would one select an appropriate name? Especially if the origins are on several continents. Hard enough to figure out the country of origin for import and export purposes, let alone developing a name!
So I don't mind the various names. Some will like them, some won't, regardless of the name chosen.
The bias against "pacrim" stuff is a bit odd. Last time I looked, Taylor guitars and my fine Ecuadorian classical guitar were pacrim items.
Stephen Perry
I figure they acknowledge the same system of longitude. We here in America don't consider ourselves the 'center', we consider ourselves the west. As in the Western world, Western Civilization, etc.Originally Posted by (MikeEdgerton @ Mar. 16 2008, 08:32)
I never thought of menaing for the 'East' in 'Eastman.'
I wonder if that was an intentional double meaning? Pretty clever if so.
I don't think of the down-homey names as being anything other than typical marketing for such things. Just like that salsa from New York City.
ApK
I played a Kentucky 1500 in the early 1990's. Sold it to buy a 1982 Givens F Model (out of necessity). Would not let my Givens go for anything......but sure wish I still had the Kentucky 1500!!!
Wasn't Morgan Monroe Bill's older brother that died shortly before the Monroe Bros. left home to play music?
Funny they would name a bluegrass instrument after Bill's older brother nobody knew. He only played the "jaw" harp and spoons at the old barn in Rosine, KY.
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