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Thread: How fast for dancing?

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    A question for those of you who play in ceilidh bands: how fast, in bpm, would you play a reel for dancing? What about a jig? It maybe varies from dance to dance, so let's say the Eightsome Reel and a straightforward Strip the Willow (rather than the controlled insanity of the Orcadian/Shetland version at the end of the evening).

    The background to the question is that different people seem to play jigs and reels at different speeds, varying from the stately to what might be called "bluegrass tempo". I want to be playing at a speed which allows the melody to be actually heard, which has a swing or lilt about it but which doesn't drag. Since most tunes were written with dancers in mind, knowing what speed works for dancing at ceilidhs seems like a sensible measure.

    Alastair

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    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    The following from an Irish Trad Banjo site:

    The Irish Dancing Adjudicators Examination has specified the jig tempo to 72-76 beats per minute for a double jig and 112-120 for a single jig. This is definitely a bit too slow if you play without dancers. 130 is perhaps better.

    The reel is...about 200 beats per minute - perhaps even faster if it's notated in 2/4 time.

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    Not too fast, but not too slow either! Evasive answer, I know, but I've never timed it.

    I suspect you already know the answer to your question, Alastair, certainly for jigs and reels for dancing, marches for a Canadian Barn Dance, strathspeys for schottishes etc. Dance them yourself and you will soon know!
    David A. Gordon

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    Dagger

    I know what feels right when I'm dancing; but I'm having trouble translating that into playing. Somehow, I've never managed to monitor the speed with a metronome in mid heugh!

    Alastair

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    Due to younger bands being critised for playing too fast, the late Dr Sandy Tulloch timed recordings of the late Jimmy Shand to be used as a measure to analyse the younger bands and his timings were as follows:

    Gay Gordons 29 beats/minute
    Irish Jigs 66 beats/minute
    Reels 62 beats/minute
    Strathspeys 36 beats/minute
    Waltz 54 beats/minute
    Pipe Reel 60 beats/minute
    Scots Jigs 64 beats/minute
    2/4 C.B.D. 44 beats/minute
    Two-Step 64 beats/minute

    He did find that the younger bands were playing faster but not by a vast amount.
    Regards,
    Henry

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    In my experience the dancer usually lets you know by hand signals - even though they're by their sides - to speed up or slow down.

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    Registered User mikeyes's Avatar
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    I think we are talking about two different types of dancers. The signals Claughaun mentions are from step dancers who are competing on an individual basis and want a BPM that suits their style. The other dancers mentioned are set,céilí, or contra dancers, etc. who are dancing in a group.

    The first category needs to have a very specific BMP depending on their skill level (more skill=lower BPM) while the ensemble dancers usually want a faster BPM the more skill they have.

    If you are not sure about the tempo, ask the caller and he or she will help with the speed. Several years ago I watched the Kilfenora Céilí Band at the Milwaukee Irishfest and they were at 120 BPM every time for reels. I doubt that Scottish set dancing is any different as dancers seem to have a natural rhythm depending on skill level.

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    I've often thought the optimum speed was related to heartbeat, so out of interest I checked what that should be. Target heart rate at 50% intensity (eg dancing?) would appear to be around 125 bpm.
    The late Sandy Tulloch's timings of Jimmy Shand suggest that reels played at 62 bpm have a very close relationship with the target heart rate while dancing, ie almost exactly half. #Not a coincidence, surely.
    Measuring it in a different way, that is also close to the Kilfenora's 120 bpm.

    I actually think music from all around the world probably works best with some relationship to the heartbeat.



    David A. Gordon

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    Notary Sojac Paul Kotapish's Avatar
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    For New-England-style contra dancing, the conventional wisdom is that the tunes should come in somewhere between 112 and 120 BPM, with 115 considered a pretty reasonable pace for most crowds. Some dances benefit from slower or faster tempi. The specific dance, regional preferences, the nature of the band, and the age and experience of the crowd all dictate the correct pace, although some callers look only to their own preferences when calling the tempo.

    Old-time southern squares are often played quite a lot faster.
    Just one guy's opinion
    www.guitarfish.net

  10. #10

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    Hi there,

    Perhaps worth thinking about, going by S Tullochs timings

    ie Gay Gordons 29 bpm divided by 4 beats to the bar

    = 7.25 bars played in a minute?......don't think so!

    same applies to each of his timings

    OTOH

    128 bpm divided by 4 beats to the bar = 32 bars a minute

    Consider a set of tunes for a gay gordons comprising 3 x 32 bar tunes each played twice through would be 6 minutes in total (192 bars) at 128 bpm which is too long.

    How about 168 bpm divided by 4 = 42
    192 divided by 42 = 4.5 minutes

    Also consider some dances are done twice, 1st time through to learn the dance and 2nd time through to have yourself a ball!

    I think S Tulloch must be counting the bars as 1 beat per measure!.......

    Cheers
    pkev

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    I play in a trad band in Cleveland ("Turn the Corner") and we play a ceili dance once a month for the Cleveland Ceili Club, mostly set dancing. We use a metronome and for reels we use 118; for jigs 130.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    This, from a book of Irish traditional music played by Packie Manus Byrne.
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    Registered User mandocaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (JeffD @ July 28 2008, 14:24)
    This, from a book of Irish traditional music played by Packie Manus Byrne.
    Those bpms feel right.

    I like the way they say what note value means a beat.

    Except for the waltz. I don't think any non-robotic dancer could dance a waltz with a dotted half note at 150 bpm. They probably meant a quarter note.
    Mitch Lawyer

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