Another fake gibson

[Jim Broyles]

I believe that we need to establish an email hot line with Gibson so we can report these fakes to them and let them take the appropriate steps. At this point we'd just be being busybodies, but if it were in place and they expected it maybe it would eliminate some of these scammers. Maybe it's just a nuisance to Gibson and they don't want to be bothered with these two-bit counterfeiters, who knows?

[markishandsome]

Based on Gibson's frequent high-profile lawsuits, I wouldn't be surprised if they leaned on ebay for not stopping phony auctions. They'd focus on electric guitars of course, but maybe they could avert some situations like this.

[mrmando]

Except that Tiffany's sued eBay and lost. I'm not sure what argument would be available to Gibson that wasn't available to Tiffany's.

[Jim Broyles]

I would think that Gibson would be more interested in finding and leaning on the people who were actually doing the counterfeiting of their products. If they found this guy and put him out of business, that, especially if publicized in a widely read forum such as the Mandolin Cafe, would go a long way toward eliminating this sort of thing.

[Dave Hanson]

I think the only counterfeit bit was the fake label inside, and that wasn't even a reasonable copy, the mandolin itself wasn't actually a copy, just a plywood cheapo with a Gibson logo on the peghead.

Dave H

[phiddlepicker]

According to Gibson's website criminal use of a trademark is apparently a felony. They have a link on the lifestyle site to an article about counterfeit instruments.

[mrmando]

Here we go again.

Anyone know David Harvey? Feel like directing his attention to this thread? This is at least the fifth one.

[cooper4205]

Here we go again.

Anyone know David Harvey? Feel like directing his attention to this thread? This is at least the fifth one.

wow, looks like Texas has a mandolin counterfeiting ring on it's hands. This one looks to be the same make/brand, expect the f-hole version.

[Jim Broyles]

No, this one is the Johnson fraud, the A4 is the Kona fraud. Has anybody emailed the seller yet. The last one ignored me and took a poor soul for 650 bucks.

[Jim Broyles]

Gibson has responded thanking me and saying that its legal department will investigate.

[Bill Snyder]

I contacted the seller of the latest fake. He responded by asking me how he could spot these, but he has not pulled the auction.

[Jim Broyles]

Gibson has been informed about all 5 of them that we have spotted so far. There are probably others that did not get listed on eBay. I think the legal dept at Gibson will be in contact with the sellers at the very least. If they are not guilty of anything more than ignorance at least they should be able to direct Gibson to where they got them from. The one that sold for $650.00 last week - I have no doubt the seller had his doubts about the authenticity of the mandolin but went ahead and sold it anyway. I hope he pays.

[Links]

I think the Tiffany versus Ebay suit was basically that Ebay has no legal obligation to "police" whether or not Tiffany items sold on their site are legit. It had nothing to do with Tiffany defending it's own trademark. I agreed with the ruling, although I think Ebay has an ethical responsibility to remove items that they are "alerted" about as counterfeits - much as they often do when someone points out that an item is a scam. It seems like they make enough money to hire "experts" to monitor some of their most aggregious catagories.

[Jim Broyles]

I'm not sure if I believe that eBay "has an ethical responsibility to remove items that they are "alerted" about as counterfeits" because it is unverifiable from their point of view. I believe that if they know without a doubt that an item is a counterfeit, then they have that ethical responsibility. FWIW, no item I have ever alerted them about has been removed by eBay, nor should it be on my say-so. My opinion is that they should investigate all such alerts and if true remove the item and ban the seller for life. And they need to do it by a means which is enforceable, not just email address. There are so many categories which are scam havens it would be practically impossible to police them all. We know mandolins, maybe they should hire a cafe member to police the mandolin scam market, and have similar arrangements with other hobby, collectable or what-have-you sites.

[mrmando]

The latest one has been relisted with a lower price.

[Links]

JBmando - yeah, I agree regarding removing items on an "alert". I really intended to imply that they should investigate and make certain that items are fake before acting. Many of the folks that "alert" them have no clue whether something is real or not. That is why I thought they could afford to "hire" their own experts. It sure doesn't seem to be a problem for the Mandolin Cafe members to recognize a fake. I am sure other sites do the same for their area of interest.

[f5loar]

These "Gibson" A4's are showing up so much from different parts of the country I'm being to think they were made up in China/Korea/etc and made with the Gibson logo name and label vs. some individual mass making them in the USA.
Paying $650 for a $65 import mandolin should be criminal in nature and sellers proscuted the fullest extent of the law of that state. Especially when you willing and knowlingly after notification to continue to sell it as the real deal when you were warned it was a fake. Anyway I was in NewYork City last week and got a super deal on a genuine Rolex diamond watch in a subway bathroom area. I'm willing to pass the savings on to you and the first person to send me $50 the watch is yours and I'll pay postage.

[markishandsome]

I thought they were all in texas?

[mrmando]

Yeah, so far all the ones I've seen on eBay were in Texas. However, Tom could still be right about the "customization" being done in China. Somebody who supplies instruments to Texas pawnshops is counterfeiting, and I'd sure like to know who it is.

[morristownmando]

There is no use to keep going on starting threads about the bogus gibsons. gibson will not do any thing about it i will not you wo'nt an the american people won't so whats the point. if you cant tell the dif between a fake and a real mccoy then somethings wrong.

[mrmando]

There is no use to keep going on starting threads about the bogus gibsons.

That's why we're keeping all the comments about them in THIS thread.

gibson will not do any thing about it

Remains to be seen, doesn't it?

i will not

That's a shame.

you wo'nt

I'll tell sellers and bidders their stuff is fake.

an the american people won't so whats the point.

Maybe the Nigerian people will!

if you cant tell the dif between a fake and a real mccoy then somethings wrong.

The guy who got taken for $650 was a first-time eBayer. He didn't know the difference, but I did. I'm not positive but I suspect he appreciates my telling him he'd been had. He's taking steps with Gibson, eBay and his credit card company to get his money back.

[vermin307]

well MrMando, I for one salute you for taking the actions you did, and I am sure the buyer was very grateful for your info....

[Jim Broyles]

I really wish there were an ignore feature on the Cafe.

The guy from Gibson customer service told me that he forwarded the info to the legal department. I figure if they don't even want people using their headstock shape, I'd imagine they would not care for calling an entire instrument by the name Gibson. I could be wrong, I guess.

f5Loar, does that genuine Rolex have a genuine quartz movement?

[markishandsome]

There is no use to keep going on starting threads about
the bogus gibsons.

If that first time ebayer had visited the cafe first he'd still have his $650. Often these sorts of threads are started by a cafe member considering bidding in an auction they think may be a scam. I'm sure I've seen at least a dozen folks saved from scams by such threads.

gibson will not do any thing about it i will not you wo'nt an the american people won't so whats the point.

3 out of 4 of these fakes were removed by the sellers after they were contacted by cafe members.

[f5loar]

Raising the flag here will at least save cafe members because we do have some newbies here that dont' know the difference between a prewar A4 made in Kalamazoo and a postwar A4 made in Korea last week. Nothing wrong with learning by this method. I think it's funny in a way that these sellers are doing this especially after they have been told they are fake by dozens of people. It just certifies these sellers are theives using the internet for their prey. An honest seller would pull the ad and start over with the correct information after doing some research on their own (no reason to believe the dozens of people from here it is fake) or at the least add onto the description he has been told it might be a copy/fake. Then if someone pays $650 for a $65 mandolin it's their heartache not the seller.