Amp vs. pa

[jaco]

Played a gig last night through my AER compact 60. We are a trio with acoustic bass (unamplified) Two vocal mics and an acoustic guitar through the PA.The guitar and 2 vocal mics through the Bose with one sub. Friends told me all night long "can't hear the mandolin". Now the Aer is a great amp and works fine at practice. But I'm thinking I need to go through the PA for everyone to hear me. I believe the Aer has a direct out that can go through the Bose and I can use it as a stage monitor if I want or just leave it at home and go right through the PA. Any ideas out there?

[Chief]

Jaco- I play my instruments (mando and fiddle) through an Ultra Sound amp- and then mike it through the PA> I used to direct line it out, but was told miking gave a better sound. If you have an extra mike, I would give it a go. It's nice to use the amp as a stage monitor, so you can hear exactly what's going out there.

[Tim2723]

If the PA in question is the talking totem pole, you'd probably be better of going though it directly. #It works as its own monitor. Most guys I've heard use a combo amp as a stage monitor just get lost in the mix, as they're often listening to themselves instead of the group. #When your own sound is loud to you, you might not be coming out the mains loud enough. (But that's not the same as using an amp to shape your sound then micing that into the PA. It's individual instrument monitors that can cause trouble.)

[billy parker]

I feel like it all depends on the circumstance and whatever you can do to make the experience optimal.
I play Western Swing sometimes with a band with horns, so really need the stage volume.
My current rig for that is a McIntyre Feather to Baggs Para Acoustic, then into my small Polytone amp. The Bagg's allows for 1/4 as well as XLR out that operate independently, the advantage being that the XLR house signal is unaffected if you turn the amp up on stage. I also usually put an MXR micro amp in the line as well for solo volume.
Other times, it is straight microphone, or DI on stage. I also have a Baggs Radius and a K & K Silver Bullet, so I can try to be ready for whatever is available! Good luck to ya

[Rick Cadger]

What Tim said.

If your amp has DI or line out then it may well be handy for shaping the sound before you go through the PA, but using it as a monitor is only helpful if you need to hear yourself well in order to correct/avoid playing errors. It'll give you no good idea of how you sound relative to the other guys.

I use a Marshall acoustic combo. I mic into one channel while the banjo chap puts his pickup into the other channel. We add reverb etc to taste, tweak the relative volume levels and bass/treble frequencies and then bung the whole mess out via the DI to the PA.

Works for me.

[Tim2723]

Well, remember that when using a small combo as a shape/preamp into the mains, many groups also have good soundmen out front making sure the main's balance is right. #The problem with combos as instrument monitors happens mostly in small groups running their own sound. #That's when it's easy to get lost. #What happens is that the stage volume is heard by the players and everything on stage is cool, but the audience hears a different mix entirely.

I'm not saying don't do it, there's LOTS of good reasons for it. #Just be aware that when it's done right it's very good, and when it's bad it is very, very bad.

Remember too that while a 60 watt combo is nothing to sneeze at, it can't compete as a stand-alone against a Bose. It just ain't gonna happen.

[Rick Cadger]

Well, remember that when using a small combo as a shape/preamp into the mains, many groups also have good soundmen out front making sure the main's balance is right. #The problem with combos as instrument monitors happens mostly in small groups running their own sound. #That's when it's easy to get lost. #What happens is that the stage volume is heard by the players and everything on stage is cool, but the audience hears a different mix entirely.

I'm not saying don't do it, there's LOTS of good reasons for it. #Just be aware that when it's done right it's very good, and when it's bad it is very, very bad.

Remember too that while a 60 watt combo is nothing to sneeze at, it can't compete as a stand-alone against a Bose. It just ain't gonna happen.

Good sound men out front? Yeah, I suppose some people do have that luxury.

We have the mixer plonked on top of a single PA cab (we only use one, except at large venues) next to our singer/rhythm guitarist. Our whole set up is unorthodox and kind of punk-minimalist. Any self respecting sound man who saw it would feel the urge to reach for matches and an accelerant.

The sound for the audience is generally quite good - by luck more than judgment. We do "Mama Don't Allow..." as a sound check to get levels for the instruments, while our other singer stands front of house doing the sign-language thing. He owns a recording studio and does sound for music events, so he's got a good ear. It's sort of a waste of time though because the guitarist who sits by the mixer can't resist fiddling with it throughout the set - even though he doesn't have a clue how it all sounds to the punters!

[Tim2723]

Oh yeah, the guy who can't keep his mitts off the mixer but doesn't know what the audience is hearing. #I think we've all played with that guy! #Have you worked with his bother, the "But I can't hear myself" guy? Then there's the guitarist (usually) who needs to tweak his tone so he adjusts the flogging graphic EQ instead of his channel. #His guitar sounds fine, but everything else sounds like tin cans with strings.