Mandolin/capos

[alisterhrae]

Hey guys, how many of you use a capo? I always thought capo's were taboo on a mandolin. I see from The Punch Bros videos on You Tube that Chris Thile uses one?

I must admit I like the sound of open strings ringing, and a capo sure helps with that.

Alister

[allenhopkins]

I see a multi-page thread looming. #For some reason, the question of using a capo brings out the didactic and moralistic among us ("you should learn to play fluently in every possible key -- only a musical moron would use one..." etc., etc.).

I use capos regularly on mandola, octave mandolin and mandocello. #I have used one on rare occasions on mandolin, when a singer wanted to do an uptempo 'grassy song in Eb and I couldn't be bothered to work out a part -- a first-fret capo and "D" positions were so much easier. #I have also retuned to accommodate singers' key signatures, when I thought the mandolin part would sound better with un-fretted strings than with mostly closed chords.

We've seen Thile, Skaggs etc., mandolinists whose chops are unquestioned, use a capo in certain situations. #In defiance of the "capo police," I say "do what sounds good to you" and don't worry about others' opinions.

[swampstomper]

I was dead-set against it until I met up with Danny Stewart (who runs a great jam tent at various festivals in the NE USA) at the Norwich (NY) festival in July. He plays with Louie Setzer in a terrific regional band from the Scranton (PA) area. Danny reasons that guitar players use capos to get a specific sound (open strings, overtones...) so why not mandolin? #It's not necessarily that he can't play in Bb, just that it sounds different in G+3. #So far I haven't tried a capo but my mind is open to the idea.

A good example (from Danny) is the instrumental "Big Country" in A. Vernon Derrick wrote it and plays in open A, with lots of ringing on the open A and E strings. Danny plays it in G+2 so he gets those Monroe licks in, and has the open G (=A) and D (=E) low strings. A completely different sound.

It was fun jamming with Danny where he had a capo and I didn't -- same idea as banjos in two tunings or one guitar capoed high the other left open. #Interesting approach to double mandos.

[MikeEdgerton]

There are a few pages of threads that discuss capos on mandolins here. Some discuss the merits of using one others discuss technique yet others discuss brands. This is one of those subjects where there doesn't seem to be much middle ground on the cafe.

[Ted Eschliman]

I'm a recent convert to the "Capo, why not?" club. The bulk of my stage playing is on a church instrumental Praise team, and the most effective integrating the mandolin into this environment involves doing what the mandolin does best, and equally important, what the other instruments cannot do. Three things stand out as its signature strengths: cross-picking accompaniment texture, melody tremolo, and percussive chop.

The first of these three, cross-picking will always be best when you can rely on open strings to drone on. A couple weeks ago, we did a special anthem written in the key of Ab, not exactly a drone-friendly key. With my newly acquired Kyser Capo (of course the guitarists were already capoed…), I was able to lay in a pretty, delicately subdivided background texture that complemented the rest of the ensemble nicely.

Capo. Why not?

[mandolirius]

<I'm a recent convert to the "Capo, why not?" club.>

Me too. It happened at rehersal when we were working up an old-time tune. The singer wanted to move it from D to E. I didn't want to lose the open string sound I had in D, there was an extra banjo capo lying around so I thought, why not? Couldn't think of a reason. Of course, then I had to buy one and now my already overburdoned case compartment has something else that has to be stuffed into it. #

[jessboo]

capo on a mandolin NO you might as well play a banjo

[Joel Spaulding]

Why Not, indeed? Simply a tool. Playing in every key is a skill to aspire to and eventually master, but open string drones in Eb are much more convincing, at times, with a capo.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

I am comfortable more or less in most keys, so I've always been a 'no capo necessary' kind of person. #But I use one on guitar, and I've seen Tom Rozum use one on 'dola so...

I bought a banjo capo yesterday for use with my mandola, which has a 17" scale length. #Rozum uses one occasionally on his Gibson mandola, so I figure I'd see how I liked it on the Weber Alder #2.

Playing "John Barleycorn Must Die" in Em with the capo on the second fret is much easier on my fretting hand than playing it without. #I might be able to fix that with a truss rod adjustment, but I like the openness of the sound too.

"Eight More Miles to Louisville" in D is much easier on my hand with the capo in the second position, too.

So I wondered how "Girl I Left Behind Me" might sound with the capo on the 'dola's 7th fret (all the way up to mandolin tuning). #Wow. #Different. #Fingering is narrower of course, notes pop faster. #Again, Fun!

Then I got adventurous and slapped the capo on my mandolin's 7th fret. #Short scale piccolo mando! #Once again, Fun! #I may have to write something for that position. #

Capo: Don't knock it 'til you've tried it! #
Daniel

[mandognome]

I use them now for mandocello and of course guitar.

I used to use one frequently on mandolin in a band that played in keys that allowed no open strings when I wanted open string sounds. There are some voicings in some keys that you just can't get without one. I stopped using one so that I could practice playing in keys with less open strings, even though the voicings would be different. Haven't gone back because the duo/trio I play with now favors the "cowboy keys" and vocalists are flexible and conscious about what capo placement does to non-capoed folks. Just my story. I'm not at all against them, especially having seen advanced players I love using them; maybe I'll go back at some point. When I did do it, I used a schubb (sp?) b&*jo capo. I liked to be able to vary the pressure for different places on the neck.

[Eddie Sheehy]

It's just another tool. I have come across fiddle players who like to play tunes in "obnoxious" keys to weed out other players in a jam. Well a capo - especially a sliding capo - keeps you alive without having to revert to chop chords and attract annoying glances from other players... in a Celtic jam of course....apologies to BG players. I became a capo fan on guitar after painstakingly learning Paul Simon's "America" in Eb, only to see him performing it live in "C" with a capo on the 3rd fret.

[Jim Broyles]

I joined a rock band 17 years ago which did a Social Distortion song, "Ball and Chain" in the original key, Db, because the singer could sing it best in that key, with their guitars in standard tuning. I pointed out to them that SD tuned their instruments 1/2 step lower, and did the song in D position. A light bulb went on for some of the guys. It was a heck of a #lot easier to play it and sounded like SD. We tuned down a half step and never looked back. The use of a capo, like the use of re-tuning, is a means to an end - making the songs sound better. Put everyone who tells you not to do it on ignore.

[Bill Foss]

I use a capo, you bet! For me it's more for the sound and style I want emulate. Others have already talked about it's usefullness for Old Time playing. I second that. You can preserve all those lovely open, rining strings.

I remember seeing the Whitstien Brothers perform once, and the mandolin playing brother used a capo on some of their lovely, Old Time sounding brother duets. And maybe someone can tell me if I'm wrong or not, but I think I once saw one of Jimmy Martin's mandolin players capo to get a nice ringy sound.

I'm also an advocate of learning the fret board backwards and forwards and being able to play in any key without a capo.

http://www.myspace.com/billfossmusic

[Gerard Dick]

I love my capo. I can play in B-flat too. It just sounds better in G+3. I customized a Kyser capo to suit my mandolin. I removed the rubber pads and sanded a radius into the aluminum part. Then I shortened the bare minimum length to be useable on the 4th fret. Both the top and bottom parts of the clamp were shortened. Cutting the top rubber to suit and re-glueing it then sliding the bottom pad back on completed the operation. Presto a functional capo that doesn't get in the way.

[Andrew DeMarco]

Every once in a while I reach for my guitar capo to put on my mando. It's a regular ol' trigger style capo.

I'm always worried that it (not the part that goes across the top of the fretboard, but touches the back of the neck) will damage the neck.

Thoughts?

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm always worried that it (not the part that goes across the top of the fretboard, but touches the back of the neck) will damage the neck.

Thoughts?

That's why I bought a G7 banjo/mandolin capo. Not inexpensive but it's easier on the neck.

Janet Davis has them here.

[JeffD]

15 responses and 200 some views and only one dogmatic post. I am very impressed.

In a previous thread on this topic we kind of agreed to "stopped arguing with" the idea that the capo is fine when used as a tool to get certain sounds you can't get otherwise, (sounds which the dogmatic might deny exist) and not good when used as a crutch to play in certain keys not as easy to play in.

When working out tunes and chords on my own, I try and exhaust attempts to get what I want done without a capo, before I bring it out. In a jam situation, I'll bring it out sometimes just to play a tune I want to play in a key the banjo player wants to play.

Lately I have been fooling around with putting the capo on the first fret and forcing all kinds of wierd fingering to play the tunes I know in the keys I know them in. Great exercise, and a relief when I take it off.

And I keep threatening to work out how I might cut open gaps in a capo and use it to quickly apply alternate tunings.

If anyone has done this, please share your success - I for one am interested.

[jim_n_virginia]

Reasons For NOT Using A Capo

1. You'll be accused of being a lazy musician.
2. The Bluegrass police will get you
3. it is a crutch
4. Bill Monroe didn't use one

AND 5. BILL DIDN'T USE ONE!

There that just about covers all the reason's why not to use one.



And the reason why I have used one (a long ago, at a jam no one knows me at, only for a minute and I hated myself in the morning)...

because I want to!

[John Flynn]

People who, in previous threads, were documented as having admitted using a capo on a mandolin:
> Sam Bush
> Ricky Skaggs
> John McGann

So far, those three people have avoided: being accused of being lazy musicians or needing a crutch, or being busted by the bluegrass police. While it's true that Bill didn't use a capo, he did, a different times, record with the following in his band: a piano, an accordian and an electric guitar, all of which are today considered illegal by the bluegrass police. I daresay using any of those instruments would be considered worse than using a capo by the BGPD.

[Sean Greer]

I joined a rock band 17 years ago which did a Social Distortion song, "Ball and Chain" in the original key, Db, because the singer could sing it best in that key, with their guitars in standard tuning. I pointed out to them that SD tuned their instruments 1/2 step lower, and did the song in D position. A light bulb went on for some of the guys. It was a heck of a lot easier to play it and sound like SD. We tuned down a half step and never looked back. The use of a capo, like the use of re-tuning, is a means to an end - making the songs sound better. Put everyone who tells you not to do it on ignore.

JB, you are one of the voices of reason on this board. Keep up the good work!

As for a capo...I haven't tried one yet on the mandolin, but I don't think I'd have a problem with it either.

P.S., still working on your Suicide is Painless chords...great stuff.

[MikeEdgerton]

I do have a capo and bring it out now and again when someone wants something in an odd key to match a voice. Honestly, I get pretty confused because the dots on the fingerboard don't seem to match anything and being dumber than dirt I have a hard time figuring out where the heck I should be once I'm past the third fret above the capo.

[JeffD]

I get pretty confused because the dots on the fingerboard don't seem to match anything and being dumber than dirt I have a hard time figuring out where the heck I should be once I'm past the third fret above the capo.

Same problem here I am addicted to the dots and I have to turn the neck away so I can't see them when I use a capo.

[jim simpson]

I've been doing some gigs with a band recently that has a fiddler who tunes one of his fiddles down so he can play the open positions for B flat. It took me a while to figure out why he was switching fiddles during our sets.

I know a fellow who plays with a capo all of the time and he plays with a band or two. I believe he uses the Page style to minimize attention to it. He told me that he learned with it and didn't think he could re-learn and not use it. He's a great player, by the way.

[alisterhrae]

Thanks for all the opinions guys. A couple of times recently playing with a great lady singer, and not knowing what song was coming next I used a capo, she was singing in some very unfriendly keys-I have not had enough time on the mandolin yet to work out the kick offs and chord pattern to all the keys.
I do use a capo regularly on my bouzouki, the stretches are impossible otherwise.
That G7 capo looks neat, how small is it?

Thanks again, I have been feeling the guilt!

Al

[TomTyrrell]

The best way to avoid needing a capo is to be the "Big Guy" of "Big Guy and His Hired Backup Band." He who writes the paychecks calls the key!

If you tend to play in situations where people call strange keys it is good to actually practice with a capo. Using a capo really isn't as brainless as some people think it is.