deletion

[billkilpatrick]

how can i delete a message? i looked but couldn't find a delete button.

[Mandolin Cafe]

Hi, Bill.

User deleting of posts is not being made available in the new forum. Several reasons for this. Most users never have a need need to do this, and on occasion, someone becomes upset and removes all of their posts, which is not fair to the community. There is also a 3 hr. window on editing your own posts. We realize this may not be received well by some, but it's in the best interests of the community. Simply put, this is a public place, so exercise moderation in posting. Thanks for the question.

[mandopete]

Simply put, this is a public place, so exercise moderation in posting. Thanks for the question.

Good idea, I will keep that in mind.

[mandolirius]

Hmm. The ability to edit/delete posts was one of the superior aspects of this forum, imho.

[danb]

You can edit them at first, but there's a time limitation. Once a post is up a few hours and folks have responded to it, it's fixed in place. The problem was that someone would say something controversial, folks would respond, then the original would be modified or deleted leaving a very confusing thread for anyone who wasn't in on it right away.

This way you can still change your mind soon after posting, but you can't go back and delete stuff after a few days have passed. It's more fair to people reading freshly, or to the responders to a post this way.

We can still delete things for you, but generally it'd be done in a way that doesn't confuse thread content for the next reader

[billkilpatrick]

you mean ... i have to think before i post!?!

h'mmmmm ...

reason i asked was i answered the question i posed in the "nitrocellulose lacquer" thread and didn't want it taking up space. as "head techie" please feel free to whisk it away.

[MikeEdgerton]

Hmm. The ability to edit/delete posts was one of the superior aspects of this forum, imho.

You can still edit as long as you edit within the first three hours (If I recall). The only people the non-delete function is going to cause problems for are those that were using it for less than honorable purposes. Everyone understands mistakes and if you accidentily double post something it isn't a big deal. If you have a problem with a message you post that needs to be deleted send a PM to the moderators.

[San Rafael]

Mike, I'll work within the new deletion parameters (and thanks as always to owners and moderators for the Cafe resource). But there may have been "honorable" reasons for post deletion in the past.

One is modesty. Some folks who might enjoy an ephemeral exchange just don't like carving their words into cyberspace stone, any more than we would want everything we say out loud during the day to be published forever.

Another is discouragement. Sometimes a thread begins well, but then degenerates into silliness or hostility that a person may not want even a cyber association with.

Again though, I'm happy to play by the new rule. It's just that your "less than honorable" phrase caught my attention.

[Mandolin Cafe]

If there are valid reasons for a post/s needing to be deleted, the moderators are always more than willing to entertain that discussion when within reason, but just allowing all posts to be deleted at a user's discretion is a direction this forum has made the conscious decision to head away from. Again, another good reason for all users to observe the posting guidelines that are in place and to continue to recognize this is a public forum and we all need to act accordingly.

[MikeEdgerton]

One is modesty. Some folks who might enjoy an ephemeral exchange just don't like carving their words into cyberspace stone, any more than we would want everything we say out loud during the day to be published forever....

If one feels that way they shouldn't post anything.

By the way, I do understand that there are honorable reasons for deleting and editing posts. Those folks have no problems, just send a message to the moderators. There are situations where it's been used as a really silly method of manipulating the truth. 99.999999999999999% of the cafe members would never do that. We don't live in a perfect world.

[San Rafael]

[QUOTE=MikeEdgerton] "If one feels that way they shouldn't post anything."

Uh . . . . okay.

[MikeEdgerton]

Uh . . . . okay.

What that means is that if a person is worried about what they post becomming part of the eternal Internet record they shouldn't post anything anywhere. Even if you were to delete every post you put up after 5 days it can still possibly be found someplace else on the web. Check out www.archive.org and look at the Wayback machine. You can check most of the websites on the web back to a day years ago. Many times people take a piece of information on the web and quote it elsehwere on another unrelated page. Once something is online you lose control of it. It's that simple.

[delsbrother]

I would often go back to posts I made long ago and edit them for factual errors or added information. Though I suppose I could've just made a new post in the thread, I felt it was easier to do it this way than to bring up an old topic.

I must admit I also disliked having an "edited by" tag on a message, especially a short one. So if I found an error in grammar, etc. on a just-posted message I would post a corrected one (creating a double post) and then delete the original.

I've also deleted things that I later regretted posting. While taking this ability away falls into Bill's "think before you post" area, I wonder how much grief it's actually saving.

[Paul Hostetter]

Ditto. I find it irritating that a) you can't delete a post and b) even if you edit it, it has to show that it was edited, reason shown or not. This is a step down from the previous forum software. I prefer simplicity. What the current software does is insure unnecessary clutter.

Not being able to delete a post is definitely NOT "in the best interests of the community." If I could edit a post and not have it show, it wouldn't be so bad. Having a time limit on even that much is also a real blow to clarity and presentation.

[Paul Hostetter]

PS: Another strange quirk of the new software is that you have to go to so much trouble to subscribe to a topic. And that the first of the options of subscribing (once you've found it) is to receive NO email notification. What?? Why would you subscribe and not want to be notified? Why isn't this a simple radio button to check as you post? I think this new software needs work.

[Chris Biorkman]

I generally like the upgrade, but I also find the inability to delete or edit posts to be a little annoying. I guess it just means that you have to choose your words a little more carefully.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Whisch iss fine exxept when yre posting in the middel e of the night after a few bwewrsu.

An exaggeration I know, but not far from the truth....

I think the new site rocks.

[billkilpatrick]

Whisch iss fine exxept when yre posting in the middel e of the night after a few bwewrsu.

An exaggeration I know, but not far from the truth....

I think the new site rocks.

i agree - on the whole i'd say that not being able to delete is a JGT*.

there were times when someone had deleted-n'-ran and left me with egg on my face and times when, unknown to me, offending posts had been removed and my subsequent posting - sane, rational, genteel ... you know ... - had drawn me into a lunacy that was not of my own making.

horton the elephant's "i said what i meant and i meant what i said ..." is the order of the day now.

- bill

* - jolly good thing ...

[Patrick Killeen]

I agree with the policy.

The problem comes when someone edits or deletes a post that someone else has responded to. Doing that changes the context for the posts that follow, and with that it can change their meaning (I've read quite a few posts where replies have been rendered meaningless because someone has deleted the original question). So enabling editing and deleting effectively give people the power to edit other people's posts, you may not be able to change the words they use but you can change the meaning of those words.

As they stand the forums are a record of an online conversation, they're like a recorded chat room. Yes "clarity and presentation" do suffer, as Paul points out above, but that's the nature of conversations, and some of the "unnecessary clutter" in one post might turn out to necessary to make sense of comments latter on.

Patrick

[Scott Tichenor]

This is cross-posted on a similar thread regarding editing.

You're all welcome to your opinions about how this forum is set up and run, and we'll even provide the place for you to complain in public about it , but we/I stand by this policy.

Not singling anyone out here, but the fact is too many people shoot before thinking, use the forum as a sword with their words and then think it's OK to remove those comments after others have posted. And yes, people do post when under the influence of various products which also results in colorful language one later regrets. I think it can be easy to forget that this is a public forum, and you should act accordingly. Uncontrolled editing and deleting allows those that act outside of the posting guidelines to do so without being held accountable for their own words. If something seriously needs to be edited or removed and is within reason, the moderators are happy to assist. But the days of editing and removal free-for-all are over.

[JEStanek]

As far as subscribing to a thread. With this forum software, this is how the code was written. The default to no notifications is good. I've always used the no notifications and just used the subscriptions to monitor some threads I like that may not get traffic everyday (e.g., Mandolins In Progress, etc.) Your thread subscription with e-mail notification is 3 clicks.

Jamie

Edit: If you use the Go Advanced instead of quick reply box for posting to a thread, there is a section below the Post Section called Additional Options where you can set your subscriptions when you compose your message.

[delsbrother]

While I agree editing and deletion can be abused, I just don't see the overall benefit to removing it entirely. Are there really that many threads with deleted posts/dangling replies? Seems like you're thowing the baby out with the bongwater.

[Ted Eschliman]

I think the problem for all the critics of the newly restricted editing abilities is they are victims of the all-too human "since I didn't see it, it wasn't there" syndrome. The scores of threads from the old board that were self-deleted monthly whether in anger, or belated clear thinking are no longer there for you to view as evidence. BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN DELETED!

This is akin to visiting a school cafeteria after the custodian has painstakingly cleaned the mess of routine adolescent foodfights and careless spills, and observing, "these kids must not be much trouble, everything is so clean." All the custodian could do is stare at you dumbfounded. Sure, the majority of kids were not a problem, but that doesn't mean the school doesn't need to hire a janitor.

You're going to have to trust us on this. It was a problem. A HUGE problem, and while inconvenient for the hair-trigger poster, this "new" approach to submitting your carefully digested thoughts will hopefully instill a greater degree of discretion and self-control. It's been mentioned before, "measure twice, cut once." Take some time to think before you post.

[David Houchens]

The tongue is a double edged sword. This is just like talking in person without facial exspessions. Strong worded replies can seem from heart felt to hateful. I along with others will just have to pick our words wisely. I have posted replies that I later realized sounded a little harsh. If I felt this way as soon as I posted, I'd edit. If I felt this way later, I'd add a post with an explanation. I think sometimes it is important that people know how I felt at the time. If you like to drink etc..... and reply, at least your not in a bar where the other guy puts your lights out for what you just said.
I really don't see the problem with the EDITED thing showing. I've had two on a post before and later still saw something spelled wrong. This ain't english class. I just don't spell that well.
I'm happy to have this forum. Like other things in life I don't have control of, I just play by their rules or I don't play. David

[mandocrucian]

I don't like it.

My perspective comes from a direction that's probably different from all but a handul of others on the board who are published writers, authors, etc. (I could list 25 to 40+ different publications since the mid-70's that have run articles/interviews/reviews/etc of mine, not to mention running my own rag for 11 years.)

To me, not having the option to delete is the same as signing over all your intellectual property rights. I want the option to remove a post, for whatever reason, whenever I want, and without having to ask permisssion to do it. The "author" should have the right to let some page-long essay/explanation go "out of print".
NH

(PS: this is one of those posts that I might otherwise decide to delete after a few days. Or, now, within three hours.)