writing music

[stevenmando]

What is the process of writing music does one come up with the lyrics first or the tune?, in some ways i guess it does not matter like the saying goes What came first the chicken or the egg but I have been listing to some of my favorite singers and song writers and have been curious about the process .
I can play music just by hearing it and then picking it on the mandolin and now I don,t need the music to play the song but with all music there are other things involved.
some of my favorite singers are Nancy Griffith hope i spelled that right and Iris DeMent amoung others,one writes on social issues and the other writes more toward the spritual although both could be called activist when it come to their music.
Like all music , music pertains to ones own life experience or the times or belief,s like the song (I JUST CAN,T GET OVER YOU ) by Linda Ronstad , the music just flows with the lyrics I would be curious about other input on the subject thanks .

[billkilpatrick]

in time honored tradition ... the answer is: depends.

for the few things i've written, the melody came from the words - by listening to and experimenting with the phrasing, the tune(s) emerged by themselves.

[Jim Gallaher]

When I'm writing, I start with the lyrics -- usually the chorus (I was an English major). I tend to think of the song as poetry first and I like for a song to have a strong, memorable chorus. I envision an audience singing along (I wish!) and try to make it easy for them.

Then I'll sing it out loud for a few days to get a sense of the mood I want to create ("brooding", "excited", "happy", etc.) and the timing (straight 4/4, waltz, etc.) and tempo (slow, medium, fast). This will go back and forth for a while.

After that, I'll look for a chord structure in a key that suits my voice. I compose on the mandolin, so certain combinations will fall more naturally than they might on, say, the guitar. I'm also looking for a "hook" or thematic phrase that the rest of the band can latch onto. Playing along with the mandolin tends to solidify the timing and tempo choices that I might have wavered over in earlier days. I'm pretty close now.

The last few days are spent substituting words here and there to "tighten the narrative" and avoid sounding trite. I'll work out an intro and ending, as well as vocal harmony sections.

Then I'll submit it to the band and ask for their suggestions on an arrangement, who takes the lead in this section, etc. We'll work on it at least twice each weekly practice until we're comfortable with the arrangement. This usually takes at least two months while I search for a vocal approach I can "drive". Finally, I'll add it to our set list and we'll give it a whirl a the next gig.

But when my fiddle player -- who is classically trained and has written full orchestral pieces -- writes a song, he starts with the melody and picks various themes that express what might be happening during the song:

-- "I'm walking in this part, approaching a bend in the road -- need some walking music!"
-- "I'm thinking about a girl I know -- need a melody that reminds me of her!"
-- and so on...

Then he'll add some lyrics to flesh things out and establish more direction before returning to the melody. At this early stage he will have some chord changes for the band and will solicit comments. We'll run through what he has to-date and try out his suggestions for what the various instruments might play in a certain passage. He often hits on a particular theme that he likes and we'll work on that for a while. At this point there are very few lyrics.

The next time he presents his progress on the song it will be almost fully developed in a melodic sense. Now he will concentrate on the lyrics and won't be back until they are done. After the lyrics are finished he has a definite sense of how he wants things to sound and will talk about what emotions he is trying to express in the course of the song and how the band might approach the arrangement.

His process is typically much longer from beginning to end. We've spent as much as a year bringing one of his songs to the stage. I'm sure it would have been much shorter if we all read music, but he appreciates how much improvisation enters into the process and doesn't want to "score" the song -- just "let it happen".

Two different approaches! My songs tend to be punchy and contemporary, while the fiddle player's songs are more complicated and empassioned. His instrumental pieces are wayyyyy better than anything I've written.

[Bob Wiegers]

I'm still new at this songwriting stuff, but I'm having a good time with it, having written on average about one song a month, although it's often been 4 in one month and none for the next 3.

for songs with words, my usual method is when an idea finds me, I play with it in my notebook (google notebook, by the way), so I definitely start with the lyrics (also an English major). often there's a tune that creeps in while I'm versifying the lyrics. sometimes it takes a little while for it to emerge. I'm very much into the vein of Gillian Welch and Norman Blake these days, so almost always I'm doing straightforward and well-worn chord structures and uncomplicated (yet hopefully pleasing) melodies. so far I havent really done much revising. once something shows up, I go with it, for better or worse.

anyway, it's a blast: so just do it! I dont know if my stuff will ever see light of day besides my home-made CDs that I foist on my family, but it's still a whole lotta fun.

[Bertram Henze]

Apart from the words-vs.-chords-vs.-melody line, I would like to chime in that, for purely instrumental pieces, the instrument itself suggests many of the building blocks we can put together to make a piece of music; another component are snippets of melody we hear elsewhere and put them in new context.

For instance, listen to this exceptional banjo player (listen first, then laugh, if you feel so inclined - the player makes the instrument). Many of the "licks", if you will, are familiar phrases in classical music, but make a whole new thing when put together like this.

For the second example, forget perfection: the first tune in this reel set was put together by myself 20 years ago out of snippets of Mike Oldfield's Taurus I theme from "QE2". It was not a conscious process by all means - I just discovered the melody on my mandolin, finding it strangely familiar though, and only later remembered where I had heard it before.
Thus, plagiarism is always just round the bend, but should not prevent us from making fine music - good ideas cannot be reused often enough.

Bertram

[PaulD]

I thought I'd weigh in as someone who has written a few tunes but would like to take time out and write more. Actually, I've got a notebook full of fragments and ideas and some fleshed out verses that I've been collecting for years; my wife read it behind my back and is trying to get me to finish some of them.

My first song started with a melody and chord progression. I then took some ideas from the mood and things I was thinking of when the melody popped out and wrote a song around it. I really like the first verse, pretty much like the last and the chorus, and the middle verse always struck me as contrived but I don't know what to do with it. A couple of other songs I've written have started with verse and then the "feeling" that I wanted led to a chord progression/melody. I think that strong lyrics are more important than the chord progression/melody line, but the music must be listenable too or nobody will stick around to hear your lyrics. At least that's true for my taste... I guess if you were trying to write formulaic pop music it might be easier to start with a standard form and length and then stuff it full of whatever references are common to its genre... or at least that's what some of the pop music sounds like to me!

My wife and I just attended a songwriting workshop with Buddy Mondlock, who I think has written for Nanci Griffith, as well as a number of other performers. He's been a professional songwriter for around 30 years, as I recall. He says he starts with the lyric because he has an easier time finding music to fit the lyrics than the other way around. My impression is that most folks start with the lyric but if it works the other way go with it.

pd

[ApK]

Whenever I try to think up a melody, it always turns out to be a song I've heard somewhere before. :-(

So for the musical side, I start with a chord progression and rhythm. I've been told that this leads to overly-simple melodies, but I figure better simple than plagiarized ...

Usually I start with lyrics, though. More often than not, just an evocative phrase that seems like it would make a good title.

ApK