"Live" Online Instruction

[John Flynn]

I know this has been discussed before. I did a search and read what was out there, but I am hoping to get more up to date and specific info.

I am interested in people's actual experiences interacting with an instructor, "real time," over the web.

Specifically:

> What are the limitations? Is there anything about the medium that takes some getting used to?

> Do you have any technological "lessons learned" like, "you should have at least an XX quality web camera," or "you should have at least XX speed connection," or whatever.

> What instructors can you recommend, that in addition to being good instructors, are particularly good at using the online medium?

> How satisfied are you with the overall experience? Will you keep doing it long term? Why or why not?

> This is a bit of a digression from the four questions above, but does anyone know of an online instructor who teaches Irish trad mandolin and bouzouki online?

[Repent34]

I'd like to read feedback here as well.

[John Flynn]

Aw, come on! I know there are some answers out there!

[CajunPicker]

I have been giving real-time online lessons for the Cajun accordion for going on six months. I was skeptical at first because of bad experiences with online graduate classes. I have been very satisfied, thus far, and so have my students.

A couple of things that should be considered are:

1. Internet Connection: Both parties need to have highspeed connections. Anything less will result in frustrating delays. Even with highspeed connections there is a little delay, but you can live with it. BTW...it is impossible to play together.

2. Video Cam: Just about any webcam will work. If you have a Mac, the built in Icam is excellent.

3. Audio: Both parties should have a mic and headphones. Without headphones, the audio feeds back through the mic.

4. Software: There are many options out there to accomplish the video conference, but I chose to use Skype. It is free and works well without any popups or advertising.

5. Payment: I use PayPal for payment. Immediately after the lesson, I invoice the student through PayPal and they pay.

I hope this helps. If you have any specific questions about the process, let me know.

CajunPicker

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

I currently take lessons with Mike Compton. Here are my thoughts & rationale:

Why not just take lessons in person or use a book?
I had reached the point in my playing where I had the fundamentals down. I had listened to enough players that I knew what “sound” I ultimately wanted to follow.

For me the problem was the no one in my area played “the traditional style” mandolin. In fact, most of the instructors were guitar players who “messed around” with the mandolin. Also, the flavor of the day is the more “notey”, arpeggio based playing. Again, not what I was after.

What web cam?
I use one of the Logitech webcams ($35).

I have a Windows PC. It seems that the Mac folks have fewer issues.

What program do you use?
I currently use SightSpeed. We initially started with AIM. On one occasion we tried ooVoo.
www.sightspeed.com

SightSPeed is for free and is a quick download. I pay a fee of $50 to record each lesson. To me, this is invaluable. However, the recording can cause some data transmission “issues”. I just gave my commitment that I would not share/post or otherwise exploit the video. Besides, I suck badly as soon as I sit down in front of the computer-----I would be horribly embarrassed to have someone watch it


How often do you have a lesson?
I have a lesson once a week. I know that others are every other week. Here is a link to Mike’s Calendar: http://www.google.com/calendar/embed...e37a4ed901eeb7

Computer Requirements:
Here is a link to Mike’s FAQ’s: http://www.mikecompton.net/lessons.php

In my experience:
The area needs to be well lighted. This seems to be key to getting a clear picture that is not grainy. I would also recommend that you close all other programs so that SightSpeed is not competing for RAM. This will help with the screen freezing and audio issues.

Who offers lessons?
That I know of; Mike Compton, David Long (I think), Rich Del Grosso, & I have heard that Pete Frostic does.

As for the Irish style/bouzouki, I would email “masters” and well known instructors of that style and ask them if they have thought of using the web. It has become more common than you think.

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

Here is some for information:


Look at this:
http://groups.google.com/group/tater...a29016b7?hl=en

This is from a site that Mike has and he allowed a lesson to be posted:
http://taterbugmando.googlegroups.co...zSgvndaTPyHVdA

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

3. Audio: Both parties should have a mic and headphones. Without headphones, the audio feeds back through the mic.

I have not had to use headphones. Just my experince.

[Pete Hartley]

Re the headphones, I have had a few guitar lessons on line, I used headphones but the teacher didn't, which meant I got a repeat echo on everything I played.

I have been offering lessons online by skype but no takers so far.

I did give a live performance for a sick lady in the USA (I'm in the UK) it went really well, I did it for free but they sent me $100 (not bad for playing in front of a laptop in my own home for 15 minutes).

Pete

[greg_tsam]

That was a great excerpt from Mike's lesson. Thanks for the sneak peek.

[RobP]

That lesson excert was cool. The video box I saw was like 2" square. Is it bigger than that during the actual connection?

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

It depends on what program you use. When I "watch" my screen I have the screen set up to show just Mike. The video screen covers about 60% of my screen. There is an option to view both of us at the same time.

However, when I export the file from recording it, SightSpeed offers about 3-4 options for how to view; a 50/50 split screen, a small box (choose your location) and no box. The video replay in Windows Media Player covers 100% of the screen. This is where good lighting/high RAM makes a difference for clarity.

[John Malayter]

This post is pushing me over the edge and once I get the camera, i'll set it up with Mike.

Question? how does he handle the lesson? Is it per song,,,,,er I want to learn ??? Does he teach by your skill level? how does he know what to tell you..........

thanks

JJM

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

He and most others charge for a 1/2 hour lesson (or by the minute if you prefer to look at it that way). Most are around $30 for a 1/2 hour.

There has already been a thread on the "reasonableness" of the price when Rich Del Grosso started webcam lessons.

In my view, not bad at all when you consider what you are getting and who it is from. Sure, you can go to Guitar Center & get it cheaper. But, the guys that I know of are recognized world wide at being the best at what they do.

[John Malayter]

I understand that and it is reasonable, my question is how is the lesson structured? How does he (or you) figure out what is needed?

[Mandolusional]

Touching on some similar points here but thought I'd add my experience:

1.) You can't play simulataneously because there is a momentary time delay.
2.) You don't need headphones in my experience, but the mic should be away from the speakers. I have the Logitech Quickcam 9000 and it has a build in mic, sits on top of my monitor, and away from my speakers. Had to make some adjustments but feedback never was a problem.
3.) Good lighting is key to reducing any hand blurring effects when playing.
4.) You can maximize the video screen with most software, I use AIM for lessons with Mike Compton, but Skype when I'm on with friends.

As for how Mike structures the lessons, my experience is that it's based on skill level and what you are interested in learning. First lesson I played some, he kind of got a feel for my level, and I explained the kind of stuff I was interested in learning. We took it from there.

He can also teach you specific tunes, but I am more interested in the mechanics and fundamentals of Monroe style so we progress in more of a thematic fashion I suppose. It's mostly tune and song based, I learn the techniques and methods by playing the breaks.

[John Flynn]

"Sure, you can go to Guitar Center & get it cheaper."

LOL! I'm sure you're right there. Mando lessons at GC sounds like one of the rings of hell to me!

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

I understand that and it is reasonable, my question is how is the lesson structured? How does he (or you) figure out what is needed?

I agree, it is tailored to the individual and where they are.

First, MC reviewed overall technique (left hand, right hand-how to hold the pick.... I think that there could be a small book on that alone). With me, Mike asked what I listened to/ liked etc. During our first lesson he discussed his view of music, mandolin vs. fiddle, emotion vs. "notey-ness" and the use of tremolo. He defined tremolo as the constant movement of the pick to mimic a fiddle bow, he made the point that it is not always played rapidly as most of us think about it.

Next we worked on a fiddle tune I already knew but applied some of that stuff. More fiddle tunes using constant motion of the pick/tremolo and double stops. Mike rarely plays something the same way twice, so invariably you learn different ways to accomplish the same thing. More fiddle tunes with a “Georgia Shuffle”. We also have worked on a few songs (Two of them I learned open and closed positions and I am happy to say that I can quickly play them in at least 4 keys...I learned a LOT there)

Lately, we have been working on waltzes. But different stuff on each one. I am trying to make them have "lift and bounce" and not "plod" along. We recently did Westphalia as a simple melody and than out of chord position with some variations.

Also, along the way I have asked questions about applying the things I have learned to some of my existing repertoire. So, this sidetracks us also.

It has been a mixture of tab, learning by watching & ear. In many of the cases, tab for the basic melody but after that was learned we worked on chordal position playing so….no tab.

I know others are covering different stuff..........

[John Malayter]

thats a great review, thanks.

[Fred Keller]

I'm also a Compton student, going on two years now. I'll second what Chris has said and add a couple extra points.

RE the mic/headphone issue. I have a PC and do not use headphones but I did need to alter my sound settings a bit to make sure that the computer wasn't trying to use the camera's mic for more than one thing. For example, when my PC boots up it opens the Logitech camera software by default and pops it in the system tray. If I then try to open Sightspeed, then two programs are trying to access that mic and I have a world of sound trouble. Closing the Logitech software fixes this. I've heard of other students who need to get into their control panels and flip a switch or two: not a big deal, but if you have a PC you may need to do a little problem-solving. The good thing is that (at least with Mike's students) there are enough folks taking lessons that your problem is not likely to be unique.

RE working with Mike specifically...

I think Mike's a great teacher. He's one of the few teachers I've encountered who thinks long and hard about how to teach and works with you to match your ability with the material. That said, he's not the kind of teacher to give you lots of warm fuzzies, encouragement, and "attaboys." Don't get me wrong--he's NOT an ogre; not some kind of sour-faced, perpetually dissatisfied taskmaster. Heck, half of all my lessons we spend yacking about music or whatever and just laughing our butts off.

He just doesn't seem to expect that it's his job to bolster your ego. He'll tell you if you're getting it right or getting it wrong. He'll help you work on your technique and give you a great chance to get it right. He'll try all kinds of different angles until you get it. He'll give you insight into Monroe and pre-Monroe mandolin music that you can't get anywhere else. He just won't tell you what a great picker you are .

Every so often--like when I've been working my tail off on something and finally nail it--this bugs me a bit. But then I realize that it's my job to have confidence, not someone else's job to instill it in me.

I mention this point not to turn you away from Mike's lessons. But I do know there are folks out there who need a warmer style of lesson with a more vocally encouraging teacher. If that's you, you might not get as much out of Mike's lessons as you would from someone else.