Liuto Moderno

[vkioulaphides]

With a scale of 58 cm., it is doubtful (to me, at least) that the liuti moderni of Musikalia would have much punch in the low C-course— a troublesome area for most instruments, anyhow. And just how thick should those strings have to be, in order to resonate fully? Navy-issue cabletows would hardly do the job...

Or, as Musikalia implicitly recommends, the instrument would work optimally with "octave mandolin" tuning; 58 cm. scale should work out just fine for that. I just doubt the practical, actual aural effect of stringing these creatures CGDAE.

Or, as I have mused on occasion, one could create a hybrid, ehm... let's call it mandolaccia? (The Italian ending signifies a cheapening effect, a degree of crassness, e.g. as barcaccia is something far less elegant than a real "boat" or "ship".) So, how about a moderately sized mando(lon)cello body, strung (with guitar strings) to EADG, double courses? It would, if nothing else, be easier to play in fourths, no?

[Eugene]

Such a thing would beg the question, "Why not play a guitar, or perhaps even the lowest four courses of a twelve-string guitar in unisons?" Of course, drop these four pitches yet another octave and you have the bass guitar, which I think tends to be thin-voiced in most of its acoustic incarnations. Easily remedied with a bit o' artificial aural augmentation by virtue of solid hardwood bodies, magnetic coils, and a touch of electricity.

[vkioulaphides]

True...

[Jim Garber]

Another variation is the cello guitar made by my friend Joel Eckhaus. I have played one of his earlier ones and they are incredible in tone production.

As to my interest in the liuto that started this thread. I would love to play an actual one and see how they compare in playability as a solo instrument compared to a mandocello which I find unwieldy.

Jim

[vkioulaphides]

But, Jim, the unwieldiness of the mandoloncello IS due to the scale/tuning, no? In other words, in what way would the liuto be more comfortable to play? Hence my argument of 4ths vs. 5ths which, to my understanding, is the crux of the issue. Please enlighten my foggy mind...

Nice instrument you posted! Wow... If only it came with a bowl... (my indirect answer to Eugene)

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello Victor,

It did come down to us. The Vinaccia firm made a plectrum played four string bowl-back tenor kind of a Mandoloncello. That was way back in the last years of the 19th century.


Many greetings,

Alex

[vkioulaphides]

Hello to you, Alex!

I hope your time in Italy was a pleasant one. As for the Vinaccia instrument you mention... well, I am glad not to be alone in my madness!

Best regards,

Victor

P.S. After simmering in my head for a while, Sebastiaan's piece is really boiling by now!

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello Victor,


My Italy ´vacation´ was great; I had a really nice time in Arpino and again found interesting things (tools, moulds and templates, etc) in the Embergher-Cerrone museum. Also many things to think about that hopefully (when solved...) give more understanding about why and how certain things concerning the Embergher Mandolin were made (as they are made).
I hope it will be possible to come very close to the actual building process at the time and that eventually this knowledge will lead to a revival of building mandolins in the true style and sound (of course) of the Embergher mandolin.


Great to know that Sebastiaan´s piece is on the way. I (and I know he is) look very much forward to see and hear it!

As for Sebastiaan; he is doing fine in Italy and for those who are interested to go to this EGMA 2004 European Guitar and Mandolin Symposium in Trossingen (Germany), it´s perhaps nice to know that Sebastiaan will give a concert during the Symposium.
It is scheduled for the Friday, the 1st October and - together with the pianist Wilhelm Hellweg (known also as a duo partner of the guitarist Pepe Romero) - Sebastiaan will perform a programme that among other compositions includes Ranieri´s "Souvernir de Varsovie", Paganini´s "Adagio Cantabile" and the beautiful "Concerto" No. 1, Op.113 for Mandolin and Piano by Raffaele Calace.

The Concert takes place at 20.00 hours in the Concert Hall of the Bundesakademie.

All very exciting!


Many Greetings,

Alex

PS. Here is a photo of both musicians during a concert in Zwolle.

[Eugene]

You can really read the satisfaction with the performance on the accompanist's face. I wish I could have heard it!

[Alex Timmerman]

Indeed it was a great performance, Eugene!

And I am happy to have had the state of mind at that particular moment to take a photo as a (visual) remembrance, especially since it wasn´t recorded.

By the way, I think one of new The Consort CD´s I send you came via Norman Levine´s Plucked String, Inc. in the hands of Alison Stephens. Could that be the case? (I just wondered...)
Anyway, Alison wrote a wonderful review about it in Mandolin Quarterly.

For those interested it is printed in it´s entirety at on of the new web-pages at The Consort website:
For a fast link from here, just click on this sentence.


Best,

Alex

[Eugene]

That must be the copy I forwarded to Terry Pender, editor of MQ. I'm very glad something came of it. Dr. Pender never got back to me to even tell me if he had received the CD.

[Alex Timmerman]

Strange how things can go...

But many thanks Eugene!

[Irénée]

Hello all !...

! Has Somebody (because I am seeking strongly for…) the Liuto Cantabile method written by Raffaele Calace

...And (may be, why not) other from him (or other such as: "The Bickford Method for Mando-cello" in 3 volumes) for Mandocello please ?

Thank you very much by advance !

[Eugene]

For Calace's method, check out section 15 at the bottom of this page: http://www.federmandolino.it/wp/spartiti-music-scores/

This thread might help regarding the Bickford: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...o-cello-Method

[Jim Imhoff]

I do not see much mention of my teacher, Fabio Giudice in this thread: He is an expert in both Calace and liuto cantabile, and has recorded Calace's liuto works. He might have answers to many of the questions raised here, and I will have a lesson with him in the next couple weeks; what would you like to ask?
And yes, Jim, the mandocello is a bit unwieldy, but well worth the effort; I will never be more than an intermediate level, I started too late in life and don't have the finger strength or speed of the really good players, but there is plenty of accessible literature for plucked solo MC, (not just Bach Suites or bowed cello works) as well as typical mandolin orchestra parts.

[Eugene]

I've only recently acquired and enjoyed Fabio's solo Calace CD. I've had the Calace recording he did with Trio Musica Moderna for many years.

[Jim Garber]

Just for everyone's information: this is a resurrected thread from 2004—over 16 years ago.

[Eugene]

Yes. I noticed.

[Jim Garber]

I figured you did but not sure about some others. People who don’t notice might get annoyed when some folks who are no longer posting here might ignore their comments from the future.

[Frankdolin]

Jim, at least you know what you were doing 16 years ago.

[Jim Imhoff]

Oh.....
I need to look at the dates; but when the Cafe lists a new post, I sometimes jump in as if the discussion is ongoing. Now I don't know exactly where and when I got into this one! It's like the older Simpsons episodes where Donald Trump became president--as a joke.
All that aside, it looks like Irenee from Paris re-started, looking for Calace's Method. Irenee, you mention Bickford's Mandocello Method which is easily available from Benjamin Ash in a modern bass clef edition in case you want that. We used it at CMSA, he is quite happy to have it used.
I don't know as much about Caklace's method, but Fabio would almost certainly have it--I'll ask if you're still looking--after 2 or 3 days, not 16 years!
(Sorry, Jim Garber!)

[Eugene]

Conveniently enough, after going public domain, all the Calace works are posted to the page I shared, including the liuto method.

[Jim Garber]

Oh.....
I need to look at the dates; but when the Cafe lists a new post, I sometimes jump in as if the discussion is ongoing.

No, I do the same thing, Jim. That is why I posted in red. No need for apology at all. Some folks mention that they are bumping a thread but some don't realize it. Nothing terrible.

It is interesting looking back in time. Back then there was an amazing group of classical players who have since faded from these forums or even from this earth, sadly enough. I learned so much about the instrument and music from these folks and I thank, once again, Scott and his team from making this place available for all that to happen. The archives here are seriously rich in some valuable knowledge.