Mandolin and Oud

[Tim Peter]

World music mandolin and oud question here...

Recently came across the Oud music of Iraqi ex-pat, Rahim Al-Haj. His playing is amazing and beautiful. One cannot help but to notice the similarity between the oud and the bowlback mandolin. The oud is larger and closer in size and sound to a mandocello. Even though the mandolin is an eight stringed instrument and the oud is twelve, there has to be some common lineage somewhere in the development of these instruments. Does anyone know how closely related the mandolin and the oud are to each other?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R7JZbydqVk

[Mike Bromley]

The similarity is not a surprise:

the Oud, or Al Oud if you use the Arabic definite article "Al" ('the'), sounds suspiciously like 'Lute'. That is, for all intents and purposes, the origin of the lute. The lute, with its almond-shaped body (potato beetle to some) is the progenitor of the mandolin, who got its name from mandorlo, the Italian word for almond.

With the double courses of strings, well, who's yer daddy, er, grampa? Al Oud, is tuned, according to a music store owner in Tripoli Libya, C-F-Bb-Eb, or, like a guitar with a capo on the 8th fret. I had fun noodling on one, one spare afternoon. A fretless guitar, sort of. Frets would make playing the astounding Arabic musical scale impossible.

[JEStanek]

I've heard nice oud music by Jeffrey Armen and the Shoghaken Ensemble (Armenian folk music). Nice lute music by Eden Karamasov and Sting (open to debate on authenticity of the Dowland stuff but pretty to me nonetheless). Talk about Roots Music! That's pretty deep.

Jamie

[David Cottingham]

Got to spend some time in an Oud shop in Riyadh a few months ago. This guy could really play!

[Tim Peter]

David, that's really cool.

Thanks for the info. "Oud" does sound like "Lute" now that you mention it.

[montanasteve]

I think the oud is from the lute or the lute is from the oud, since the lute pretty mush is a fretted oud.....either way its old....indeed...

[Miked]

David Lindley does some pretty nice work on the Oud. It's cool to hear it used in American roots music. Check out Spirit of the Century by the Blind Boys of Alabama.

Here's a link for David's collection of instruments:
http://www.davidlindley.com/instruments.html

[Ted Eschliman]

Also Fawzi Chekili from Tunsia. Nothing like a little jazz oud...

[Booie]

I think al Oud rocks, for that true Delta sound (different delta). The ones I have seen/played have been five or six course instruments. Arabic tuning is generally G A D G C , lowest to highest while Turkish tuning is A B E A D. I keep my oud in Arabic tuning, and have a sixth course, strung with a single low C string (as opposed to two low C's, as they can hit each other when they vibrate). The oud plectrum is traditionally a trimmed eagle quill, although plastic picks about 5 & 1/2" by 1/2" are commonly used. "Al Oud" did indeed become the "lute" in english, and ultimately did lead to our present day mandolin, as near as I can tell. Arabic music is complex, and I have put my time into playing mandolin, but I still play once in a great while. FWIW.

[groveland]

Oud does rock. Avishai Cohen (bass, Chick Corea) does what you might call jazz fusion, and adds oud (Amos Hoffman) to his trio (piano, upright, drums), and he's even combined oud with a brass section. A mighty fun sound when you double lines on oud and upright. Listen here.

[Amy Burcham]

My head was spinning at the difference between Mike's & Booie's tuning descriptions, so I went to the oud cafe!...Some good stuff there.

[Booie]

A bit amazing how all of those different tunings share having the four highest strings tuned in fourths, when one considers the the many miles, cultures and millennia have been covered by the oud. Oh, I've got to go check the news at Hurdy Gurdy Cafe, and catch up on the board at the Gaida Cafe. Not really--=there is only one e-cafe in my heart, right here.

[Mandopolis]

In Algeria / North Africa, the mandolin is used as the first instrument for children who want to play the oud in arabo-andalousian orchestras.

We - Mandolin Liberation Front - consider that the oud is a close cousin of the mandolin, and in the Melonious Quartet, Thomas Bienabe plays the oud on some tracks (on the first album "Au Sud de la Mandoline" and on the last one "La Miugrana").


Celine / Mandopolis

[luckylarue]

Rahim Al-Haj is a fantastic musician - he lives and plays in nearby Albuquerque. Check him out if you get the chance. I also recommend Richard Hagopian who plays in the Turkish/Armenian style.

[jeff mercer]

Speaking of David Lindley, there's a wonderful live performance on YouTube of Lindley & Bob Brozman duetting on the Hank Williams song "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry", with Lindley on Oud & Brozman playing bottleneck baritone National guitar !
Absolutely beautiful playing.
Maybe someone would be kind enough to provide a link ?
Cheers,all
Jeff

[Tim Peter]

Wow, Jeff. You weren't kidding. Very nice piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-sEPkX9rbg

[Mike Bromley]

In Algeria / North Africa, the mandolin is used as the first instrument for children who want to play the oud in arabo-andalousian orchestras.

...and I continually harbor the distant hope of finding a mando in the former Italian Protectorate of Libya...stranger things could happen.

Meanwhile, the photoshoppers among us might consider redoing the evolution chain in the "time wasters" section.....

[Arto]

Oud Cafe mentioned above is great, especially if you like Turkish style oud music most (I do). But the most comprehensive oud site with extensive forums is this:

http://www.mikeouds.com/

Most ouds nowadays have six courses, the lowest string usually single. Tuning the four higher courses all fourths seems to be universal - the tuning of the two lowest courses varies according to player or the piece played. Tuning all six courses in fourths is nowadays common in Turkey. There are regional varieties of instruments and tunings (Arabic, Iraqi, Turkish/Armenian/Greek, Iranian).

[mandopops]

A couple of years ago me & the family were in Budapest. One day there was a big Arts Fest (Music,Dance, Lots of food).One of the bands featured the Oud. This band had 3 saxes Oud, & percussion & were playing some hybred-high energy Hungarian music. They were smokin'. My son got some video of them on camera. If I could figure how to attach some of it I will.