Tonerite questions

[Keith Newell]

I will add some comments about the one I received. First let me say that Hans at Tonerite is very nice to deal with. I got mine a week ago and put it on a new A style I built. I turned it up to max and let it stay for 24hrs. I then took it off and played it and it really did make a difference. I put it back on for about another 50 hrs on a setting that was not the lowest but a notch above that. I then took it to a jam session and wow. It sounded like a seasoned warrior. I play at Irish jam sessions and when it gets many players I find I switch to my Irish tenor banjo, but this time I didn't need to bring it at all.
I feel I could leave this thing on 24/7 and trust it to not hurt anything on the instrument. To use it I found it best to take a bath towel and fold it a couple times and put the tailpiece end on the center of it, then prop up the neck at about a 30 deg angle and take a smaller folded towel and let the area of the nut cradle in the towel. The mandolin is now kind of suspended and free to vibrate. The unit wedges lightly between the strings and slide it down to the bridge. Make sure no chord or anything touches the instrument.
I noticed something about the vibrations, when you first set it up and turn it to max touch the top/back with your thumb/index finger and feel the vibrations. While still feeling them slide the amplitude adjuster down to low and back up and feel the difference in the top back vibrations. I noticed that after 24hrs I could turn it down to almost low and still get as much vibration out of the top/back plates.
I don't think it will make a "better" instrument out of your mandolin but it will take it a lot closer to it's potential very quickly. As a builder you get to hear the changes that happen when you first string it up to the various stages of play time and this seems to do it quickly without the fret wear, string wear or any visible play wear. I have no financial interest but think if someone has a good idea and it works, then good for them. I could make one of these but the time spent on getting the parts putting it together and most importantly designing the application or the case it comes in I would rather have them do it and work the bugs out of it.
Keith Newell
http://www.newellmandolin.com

[jswag]

I've been reading this thread, and have also contacted Teri at music tree about the mando model. A few things that come to my mind are: It sure would be nice if a model was available that would work on a few different instruments, like mandolin, mandola, and guitar too. Are the effects lasting? I would guess they are on opening up newer instruments, but maybe not on those instruments that always seem to need to wake up" a bit before they sound good; course, that's another reason to use it before playing those "sleepy" instruments.
I could also see a music store carrying the various "models" and renting them out, kinda like the rental stores rent things.
I'm very intrigued, but I would want one that is versatile on a few different instruments.
Jeff

[EffimoFunk]

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[gregjones]

well i just sold a truck and an atv so i had a little extra money floating around... which doesnt happen very often. So I went ahead and placed an order for one last week. We will see....

With your list of instruments, it looks like you need another half dozen or so.

TAS??

[John M. Riley]

yeah i really do.... im wanting to try it on all of them.. but so far i am just done with one and almost done with another...... jeeze i do need about 3 or 4 more, haha

[woodwiz]

As for the patent pending: I believe there is already an existing patent for a similar device, which may or may not hold up to a challenge. (I know the patent holder.) There is just way to much prior art for a patent on an electromechanical device for vibrating instrument bridges to hold up. IIRC, there are a few discussions and illustrations of similar devices on this very forum.

[pops1]

This is an interesting topic. In the old days we just put the instrument on a stand in front of the stereo, cranked up the bass and volume and went to work. Do that everyday for as long as it took to open up the instrument. Vibration is vibration. I believe that playing or vibrating an instrument help the wood stay stronger also, avoiding the constant stress of the string tension.

[MikeEdgerton]

...In the old days we just put the instrument on a stand in front of the stereo, cranked up the bass and volume and went to work. Do that everyday for as long as it took to open up the instrument. Vibration is vibration...

Do you see anything that might be more convenient about having a small, quiet device that attaches to an instrument vs. standing your mandolin in front of your speakers with the sound playing loud enough to vibrate the wood? If you're so inclined to want to do this I think your family and neighbors might appreciate this method.

[Cheryl Watson]

As Mike E. stated- the convenience of the Tonerite is the advantage.

The beauty of the design is that all the amateur ways that have been created to get an instrument to open up and increase tone, have been worked out in a professional product. It's gentle, specific to the instrument. Another advantage is that it's portable, and can be taken to gigs and used before a performance.

[TomTyrrell]

For those who are really interested, the current Patent Application Number for this is 20080190260. You can see it at www.uspto.gov.

When Patent applications are pending everything you can expect to find out about the invention is on that application. The art of the patent application is in being as broad and non-specific as possible while remaining specific enough to actually get the patent granted. Anything you don't have to disclose you keep as a company secret.

The Tonerite is definately a product that could be reverse-engineered. Unless you are just plain weird the only reason to do that would be to copy the product and sell your copies at a lower price than the original. This is exactly the action a Patent protects the inventor from so it would be illogical to expect the inventor to disclose the specific details of his invention.

So if you want to make yourself a mandolin vibrator by all means do so! Just keep in mind that for only $195 you could have saved yourself all that trouble and purchased something that actually works.

[MikeEdgerton]

When they down around twenty five bucks I'm gonna get me one.

[Bill Snyder]

When they (get) down around twenty five bucks I'm gonna get me one.

I understand players interest in them but I don't think I personally would be interested in one if they were to give them away.

[mandozilla]

Mike said;
"Do you see anything that might be more convenient about having a small, quiet device that attaches to an instrument vs. standing your mandolin in front of your speakers with the sound playing loud enough to vibrate the wood? If you're so inclined to want to do this I think your family and neighbors might appreciate this method."

Right on Mike! If I tried the speaker thing my dear wife would probably turn the stereo off as soon as I left for work and then turn it back on before I got home and then I'd be saying that speakerizing your instrument doesn't work. HaHaHa

[Bill Van Liere]

When they down around twenty five bucks I'm gonna get me one.

I hear ya Mike, do figure that will be before or after you get those Waverly tuners?

[MikeEdgerton]

I hear ya Mike, do figure that will be before or after you get those Waverly tuners?

I'm really still on the fence about those. If they get down around $25.00 I'm in for those as well. Everytime I get ready to jump on the Waverly's I start thinking I need new PA speakers or something.

[mandozilla]

Well, my Tonerite Mandolin de-damping device arrived yesterday afternoon.

It's de-damping away on my mandolin as I write this.

Instructions recommend having it on the instrument for 24 to 72 hours (72 hours preferrably).

I started it at 7 PM yesterday and can only leave it on continuously for 44 hours ...gotta use the mando on Thursday night...sooo we'll see what the effects are after this initial use.

BTW, this is a REALLY WELL made device...very substantial...I'm impressed so far...NFI.

[mandozilla]

You know, I'm amazed at the number of viewers of this, and other, de-damping related threads...Dang!

I never paid attention to the viewership. I guess there's a lot of folks are waiting for the jury to come in on these gizmos.

[Michael Lewis]

I think the jury is already in, and all the folks looking in on this thread are just waiting to be convinced.

I think that if your mandolin can ever be played in these gizmos can help. I'm sure there are some instruments out there in the world that won't show much response to this treatment, but I think most instruments will.

Just playing your mandolin a lot (and aggressively) will do much the same for the development of the tone and volume, but not as soon as when massaged/de damped by the Tonerite.

[mandozilla]

JEEPERS! I've had my new Tonerite device on my mandolin for 44 hours straight. It's recommended to have it on initially for 72 hours but couldn't do it. Had to go to a jam.

Anyhow, my mandolin had good volume and tone before de-damping but now WOW!

My observations are strictly anecdotal and not scientific but I'm really impressed. We know what our mandolins sound like to us so I believe we can tell the difference. Just wish I could quantify it somehow. It definately has more volume and the tone is awesome. The notes seem to pop off the top plate.

I played it in a jam last night. There were 4, count 'em, 4 B***O's there and I had NO difficulty hearing myself...for the first time. It really made a difference in my speed and accuracy.

The tonerite is back on and it's gonna stay on all the time...best $200 Bucks I've spent in a long time...I'm a very happy camper!

[Kerry Krishna]

So there are still people wondering whether 'Instruments go to sleep'? Wow. I thought that was understood years ago. The bowed instrument players have known about this for maybe 150 years.(imagine a violin that has been sitting in a case for 80 years) A quick story. A close friend bought a D28Herringbone back in '89. Now how many D28Hs does the factory put out in a month? Say 15 of them. Well this axe was heads above the other 14. I don't have to gush about this guitar. Just trust me that I know what I'm talking about with this axe when I say it was amazing. So fastforward to '06. I have a jam with my friend Zimmy after many years. The instrument has seen about twenty hours playing time in the last 10 years. He had put a new set od strings on right before I walked in the door. It sounded like an El Degas guitar. Horrible. Amazingly horrible. When he went to the bathroom, I gave the guitar a tapping test all over to make sure no braces had fallen out. It was all solid. So it went from sounding almost broken in right from the factory, to sounding like an $160 El Degas... It was needing some heavy duty playing is what it needed.It was SO asleep, that it did'nt want to wake up at all. I never said anything to Zimmy about it. 8 months later he had sold it. When I asked why he started laughing and said 'It went to sleep! Everyone knows you can't wake an instrument thats gone to sleep. " He is wrong of course...Kerry K

[craigw]

So I've had my Tonerite for about two weeks now and in that time frame I've treated four mandolins. The first was a 2001 Gibson Fern with very dead strings, at least a year old and hardly played at all during that period. After only 24 hours the changes were remarkable. Primarily with brighter more focused tone as if the strings were not dead and as if it had been getting regular play. This instrument is very dry, especially on the low end and remained so. The three other instruments have been treated for periods of 36 to 72 hours and and across the board I would have to say each has become much brighter and noticibly louder. Seems like a pretty good investment to me.

[foldedpath]

You know, I'm amazed at the number of viewers of this, and other, de-damping related threads...Dang!

I never paid attention to the viewership. I guess there's a lot of folks are waiting for the jury to come in on these gizmos.

I don't think the jury will ever come in for some of us skeptics, until someone makes a careful, objective before-and-after recording that shows a noticeable difference in a blind A/B/X test. Is that so hard to do? Or are we all going to spend a few more years reading personal, anecdotal reports about this sort of thing (including blasting a mandolin with stereo speakers, and all the other related "de-damping" stuff)?

Seriously... if it worked, and some actual objective evidence could be shown that it worked, then I might buy one of these gadgets for the next new instrument I buy. So far, I've seen nothing but the same kind of anecdotal voodoo "evidence" that people tout for thousand dollar speaker cables, and magic magnets that make your stereo system sound better.

As for the view stats on the thread, I suspect for some it's auto wreck syndrome.... can't help but look at things that are morbidly fascinating.

[John M. Riley]

Not only did I notice a differenc eafter using my tonerite for over 72 hours on one of my mandos, but I was jamming some with my dad afterwards, and he commented that the mandolin was hurting his ears because it was so loud, haha... i do tend to play with a heavy right hand, but he had never complained before... he said he could definately tell a difference, and he made the comment before he knew i had used the tonerite

[Keith Newell]

I don't know if this topic is "morbidly fascinating" but I do know that when somebody with more knowledge, skill, respect and no financial interest says something I tend to listen and not require them to absolutely prove it to me unless it was a life or death situation. When Mr. Lewis had a good word I figured it was worth a try. As with most people I don't have a professional sound set-up that could record all the nuances and the full spectrum of what our ears hear so most don't tend to take time recording a before/after situation. In fact if I did have the set-up I don't think I would bother as I'm pretty time poor and project rich. All I know is that I'm a glass is half full kind of guy and when you find the glass all the way topped I am pretty pleased.
Keith

[mandozilla]

In my last post I said that we all know what our mandolins sound like and what the tonal qualities are like, albeit totally anecdotal, due to our intimate contact with them. (Intimate contact HaHaHa)

I have no axe to grind here and if there was no difference to me I'd be trying for a refund.

I repeat, although I can't quantitavely or qualitavely prove it, this device has made a BIG difference in my mandolins' volume and tone and I couldn't be more satisfied.

I only wish that this device could also be used on guitars...I kind of tried it but it doesn't stay put...But I'll find a way...