Chop Chord Choices for Faster Changes

[Marcus Kaufman]

I am trying to get better and faster at chord changes, especially for the closed chord "chops" used in bluegrass. For major chords, I pretty much use just one moveable chord shape (the one looks kind of like a "K"). For example, for 1-4-5 tunes in the key of "D" I use 745X for the "D," 7523 for the "G," and 9745 for the "A." Sometimes I find myself having to make ridiculously wide jumps up and down the neck just so I can stick with this one familiar chord shape.

What chord shapes are you all using to reduce the amount of moving around you have to do for common 1-4-5 progressions in the popular keys?

Thanks,

[bgjunkie]

Try 455x for the G, it is an easy transition from the D and is moveable (up two frets to A).

[AlanN]

For D-G-A-D try,

2-4-5-2

7-5-2-3

2-2-4-5

2-4-5-2

[Don Stiernberg]

For true "chop" chord situations, I advocate the same G voicing you have listed(7-5-2-3) and for D, all four strings7-4-5-2)Those two voicings are most of what you'll need. To facilitate changing, alternate between the two, first four beats each, then two, then one, then for speed. What makes this easier is leaving down the fingers that are common to both voicings. The other voicings are great too(3-string, barre, etc) but my favorite choppers use all four strings, and you hear the notes even as the chop goes by very quickly with percussive effect.

[R. Kane]

Last summer Joe Walsh showed us how the E chop 4224, where the middle finger gets the B on the G string, the index barres the 2s, and the ring finger takes the G# on the E string is really useful. It gives a low and woofy tone for E, F, G, A and B chords, but best of all, it puts the root note of the chord under your index finger, so its pretty handy for finding and reaching the relevant scale for a solo. (Sorry Joe, I hope you don't lose your pro license for my spilling this.)

It is not difficult to learn to throw this chord, and I think its fast because there is much less stretch.

[Jkf_Alone]

I'll have to try that 4224 E chop tonight! thanks for the new chord shape!



I use x224 all the time for E, but never thought of adding a B on the bottom.

[R. Kane]

4553 for that G closes it. Index finger on the 3.

[Pete Martin]

You don't much percussion on the "chop" unless the g and D string are fingered higher on the fingerboard. that is why the G chord 7523 sounds so good. You get most of the chop from the G and D strings fingered higher on the board. While the other chord voicings are correct as chords, the G chop really sounds best 7523.

Keep practicing, you'll get it!!!!

[Marcus Kaufman]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I think I have some better ideas on how to proceed.

[Jim Broyles]

This probably gets posted in just about every thread on this topic, but some people, of which I am one, believe the 7-4-5-2 D chop to sound weak due to the 1-3-1-3 voicing with no 5. I like 2-4-5 x for chopping a D. Bill used that shape when he chopped a V chord for keys where he used a G chop shape as his I. If you look at the YouTube videos of "My Little Georgia Rose" with Bobby Hicks on banjo, and "Uncle Pen" with Bobby Hicks on fiddle, you can see him use this shape for his E in the key of A, and his F# in the key of B.

[mandolirius]

One thing you might consider is using a four-three-four combination when choosing voicings.

For example: A would be 9-7-4-5. For D, use the three finger version 7-4-5 and then 9-6-7-4 for the E chord.

The advantage of these voicings is that they can be played without having to adjust your hand position. You don't have to slide up or down the neck, so you can concentrate on where your fingers are going.

[Fretbear]

The late, great Larry Rice used to advise against worrying at all about voicing notes on the high E string if it was not convenient and concentrating on the bottom six or even four strings for solid chop rhythm playing.

[mandolooter]

The late, great Larry Rice used to advise against worrying at all

Now that's good advice...stop worrying and start choppin!

[mandolirius]

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Quote:
The late, great Larry Rice used to advise against worrying at all

<Now that's good advice...stop worrying and start choppin!>

That's not what he said. It's only half the sentence. If Larry were with us today, I doubt he'd be pleased to be so badly misquoted.

As for "stop worrying and start chopping", that's just poor advice. There's nothing worse than "random hippie chopping" on a mandolin. It contributes noise but little else. Learning to play takes time and a lot of people find themselves playing rhythm for a while before they start taking breaks, doing backup etc.

It's a wise beginner who takes the time and puts in the effort to develop a good chop, one that actually contributes something to the overall rhythm. Chopping chords isn't just something you do while waiting for your next break. It's actually important.

[greg_tsam]

... There's nothing worse than "random hippie chopping" on a mandolin. .

hahahahaha....aaah... hahahahaha.... *breathe... ha..

[earthsave]

I've been accused of random hippie chopping.

[Mike Bromley]

Chopping chords isn't just something you do while waiting for your next break. It's actually important.

...and if you watch Mr. Bill, the inventor, sometimes chopping isn't!

[Mike Bunting]

Mandolirius, right on. And sometimes Mr. Bill plays nothing at all. "When you say nothing at all" as AKUS might say. And as bad as hippie choppers are hippie bongo players at a festival jam!

[greg_tsam]

Someone once accused me of being a hippie b/c I own some really cool tie dye t-shirts. I told them I'm too mean to be a hippie.

[Fretbear]

"Some folks say that a hippy won't steal,
But I caught three in my cornfield
One had a flag and the other had a bong (bomb)
And the third old boy was a-gettin' on home...."

John Hartford

[Marcus Kaufman]

It's interesting that the conversation has turned to hippie strumming and chording because that's exactly the situation I am in. My playing experience is a combination of self-study, lessons and jamming at weekly strumming and singing sessions on the beach in Santa Cruz, California (I can play open chords and sing "Friend of the Devil" with the best of them). Two weeks ago a guy that plays the bass with us on the beach asked me, because after all I play a mandolin, to join his bluegrass band. I confessed that I have never really played bluegrass, but got elected nevertheless. Hence my need to quickly master chop chord combinations in the standard keys. I really want this to work out because I have been playing now for several years and have never been asked to join anything, let alone a real band.

So anyway, thanks again for all the advise. I have added the 455x for the "G" and the 245x for the "D" to my inventory with some success. I can accept that the voicings are perhaps not the best, but I still have trouble finding my way back to the one chord when I play the big four note chop chords, especially in "A" and "D".

BTW, I went to my first rehearsal with this group, and did just fine with the chops (although I was so nervous I felt like I was going to barf as I was tuning up). Now I am working on learning the melodies to all the songs and playing breaks.

[Fretbear]

If you are going to barf, make sure you are near the banjo player, otherwise stay the hell away from him....
No, seriously, congratulations, it is always nice to be in demand. Somebody made me laugh the other day:
"I love to sing, but no one wants to listen to me....." Another three note bass string voicing that can be useful is 538X for F and higher. No one is ever going to say to you: "Why are you not voicing that I note on your high E that sounds weak and thin and which everyone else is already playing twice anyways...."
But they will notice if your rhythm chops are anything but crisp and tight like a snare drum. It is really important to lay out on rhythm sometime as well; Monroe NEVER chopped through every verse, chorus and break like you will hear some guys do in modern bands, who think they are copying what he did.
Listen to Doyle Lawson, he is a master of the spare, tasteful style. His lead ain't too shabby either, and he also sings a bit....

[kudzugypsy]

you know, you dont need to have 4 finger chords for a chop, i will seldom use those unless its a standard bg tune that really needs my help - ie, the rhythm section is all over the place. really, you can get by with 2 finger chords (double-stops) on the G & D strings more than you can imagine and save a lot of work (and the voice leading is smoother) - again, the main consideration is a good 'chop' sound - one of the best is the "Sam Bush" A-form where you use 1 finger (thats 1 finger, not 2) to barre the A&E on the G&D string, while using your pinky to damp the chord after you hit it.