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Thread: Wintergrass

  1. #51

    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Any reports from Wintergrass?? How are the performances? Spot any good mandolins on display?? Inquiring minds want to know...

  2. #52
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Much more lightly attended than I had thought on Friday. The hotel is also much less friendly to the jamming scene. Had to come home tonight so didn't see any performances...
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  3. #53
    Hester Mandolins Gail Hester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    After an incredible show with Three Ring Circle, Andy Leftwich gave a few of my mandolins a go. He is so good, just amazing. He’s also an incredibly nice person and it was a real pleasure getting to meet and talk with him for a few minutes.
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  4. #54
    Registered Mandolin User mandopete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Yes, it seems like the attendance was down this year judging by the amount of faces I saw in the crowds at the various venues. They did add a third venue this year so that may account for a bit of that.

    From a mandolin perspective I got to meet Austin Clark and checked out his wonderful GOM (seen here). It was a joy to play with it's relatively short scale and smaller body depth. A true beauty to behold and hopefully Curtis was able to buy it. It sounded fantastic!

    Thanks for the hat Austin! If I ever get rid of the extra stuff around here you'll be hearing from me.

    I also played Ted's two point, don't worry Ted, I washed my hands first

    It was nice to see Fletcher Brock and Chris Standridge as well.

    I'm still trying to digest both of the Mike Marshall events - Big Trio and Choro Famoso w/Danilo Brito. Almost too much to comprehend. That man is on another level all together!
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    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    At Wintergrass all day on Friday. I was a bit shocked by the lack of the usual crowds. Far more old folks than young folks, which seems a function of the failing economy. Came away appreciating Tacoma even more than i said last week. I can't think of another American city, with so much art displayed openly on the streets.

    I finally got to play the Iwamoto mandolin I had raved about so much on the Cafe last month. Honestly? It sounded way more unique on the mp3 at Greg Boyd's online store, than it did when I had it in my hands. It couldn't compare to two of the Webers in that same Greg Boyd booth.

    I was very impressed by Austin Clark's instruments. He seems to have developed a unique warm tone that imbues all his various shaped mandolins, and which still allows the usual pop and growl to come through in his F5s. Very hard to explain until you play it. The 2 two-points he had on display were as good as it gets.

    I was blown away by two shows. The first was The Traveling McCoury's, especially when Michael Cleveland joined in as a second fiddle (if it's possible to imagine MC as second fiddle). I am not a great fan of bluegrass because, too often, it is played as if speed is the main measure to distinguish the pros from the amateurs. These guys could easily pull out the necessary speed whenever they wanted to, but they never let the notes blur together, and the musical flow and content was always exemplary. I could easily have listened to them for the entire evening. I am curious if others regard this group as the current state of the art of trad bluegrass.

    The other show was Missy Raines and the New Hip. Lately I have been thinking about producing a CD of traditional tunes deconstructed via jazz harmonies. Although this band never did play any traditional tunes, they showed me precisely how to go about it. Missy plays bass with all the cerebral physicality of Mingus. She's included a top tier jazz drummer to her lineup, plus three very young guys who have won a slew of playing contests on mando, guitar and dobro, and whom are now writing jazz and fusion tunes with melodies that reminded me a bit of Beatle compositions like "For No One" or "Things We Said Today". Imagine Weather Report played on bluegrass instruments, and you get the basic idea.
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  6. #56
    Registered User zeke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    It did seem like a light crowd, and I know quite a few who didn't make it, but a good time was had by all who did.

    Gail, I heard rumors you were around but never did run into you; you must've seen me coming and ducked.

    On the music side, there were some very exciting bits. Had a snack with Joe Craven Thurs eve, and he says to me:"Come along, boy-0, there's a must see for us real soon". Last time he called something a "must see" was Hamilton de Holanda/M. Marshall so I've learned to listen. He took me to see Mike M again but with his new Big Trio, and they were superb! All original music (written by MM) and the young bass player (name excapes me) bowed that thing like a viola, dancing with the other two like they were born to it.

    Yes, those McCourys are the top rung of trad grass. Got to play and photograph Ronnies Loar and got the whole tale of the "Nogales Loar" if anybody's interested.

    I too met and jammed a bit with our Mr. Austin Clark, and was very impressed with the OM as well. I think the size is damn near perfect, and his other instruments are very fine as well. Definitely a guy to watch.

    I have some pix of Fletcher Brock booth (since I got to spell him to go to a show, heh heh), and he had a drool worthy blonde F4 I would have given well to play, but it was unstrung as yet. His gear is really flawless.

    Our man Carver, Chris Standridge and I had the chance to jam a few times throughout the fest and I have a few pix of his booth as well. Who am I forgetting? Possibly a lot (sleep deprivation), but wanted to take a moment here at work and dribble what I have immediately available. Hopefully I can get the ol' G4 running tonight and get the pix sized up and what not for ya'll
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  7. #57
    Registered User tango_grass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    hooray for Pete G, Chris S, and all the other mandofanatics at Wintergrass. sure was a treat.

    Since I can't about anything else right now...I'll spare you the details. I think everyone knows how great, great is. so there you have it. Wintergrass, was great.

  8. #58
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    What was everyone’s take on the venue? I think the Murano is cold, sterile and has an unfriendly attitude to the festival crowd. Saturday night, people were told to pack up and stop playing in the lobby areas at 2:00 am.

    I hope the festival can move to a place that is more accommodating to people that attend and ultimately make the festival possible.
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    I was only able to make it for Saturday night this year. I was lucky to be present at the Rialto (great venue!) for Choro Famoso with Mike Marshall and Danilo Brito. What a treat! They lined their chairs up at the front of the stage and played un-mic'd! Marshall said they wanted to play a show the way shows used to be played (or something like that) in the olden days, and they wanted everyone to really be able to hear what the instruments sound like. What a pleasure. It was a fantastic show. Choro and Mike opened, then Danilo came out a played a tune or two alone, then he was slowly joined by the others as the show went on until they were all onstage by the end. Fantastic show. Can't say enough about it (as is obvious from this gushy post).

    Also caught Michael Cleveland and his very hot, traditional band. Michael is always excellent. Caught about 3 tunes worth of the Bee Killers. They were great; music was very cerebral, not as exciting as Crooked Still. They're a very talented bunch. We left before Darol Anger joined them onstage because we wanted to get to the Rialto in time to get a good seat for MM et al.

    The crowds were light. I thought maybe the economy played a role -- this is, after all, a fairly expensive festival. During the Steeldrivers set to close Saturday night at the pavillion, the auditorium was only about 1/3 full. The Steeldrivers were also great, by the way. A visual and aural feast.

    I agree with Pete that the Murano was a drag. There were many people with stories about their jams getting shut down by the management, and there were lots of signs with rules: no jamming here, no jamming there, no smiling in the elevators, etc. (Just kidding about the last one, but it sort of felt that way.) Also, this year you needed a key card to use the elevators at the Murano, so you had to find someone to key you up to the upper levels to go to jams. Finding someone was not that hard, and I can understand the Murano's need for security, but this was another sign of how uptight the Murano was during Wintergrass. At about 11:45 on Saturday night, I went to the bar in the lobby of the Murano to get a coffee. While there, I overheard some of the Murano's big security goons planning how they were going to be doing certain things in the next few minutes to limit jammers' access to the bar, or something like that. It was like over-eager cops gleefully planning to search someone. They sounded like they were corralling an angry mob or trying to out-think clever soccer hooligans. It was a definitely weird to hear it.

    Having said all that, I should also say that the scene at the Marriott was very cool -- no apparent regulations, and jamming 24 hours was perfectly fine. We jammed in the lobby until about 225 (when I had to split) and no one bothered us. There was a nice crowd of folks and some great pickers. I have always like the Marriott (since it opened) more than the Sheraton/Murano anyway, since the pool and hot tub are on premises (not down the street) and the rooms are nicer and it's cheaper, so I was glad to see the Marriott so well embraced by folks this year. It almost seemed like the Murano was trying to drive the festival away. If so, that's sad, because the Marriott alone could not accommodate Wintergrass (even with the awesome Church and classy and hip Rialto). Where would the festival go? I don't know. Seattle? That's bound to increase the costs, not decrease them, and Where Might The Festival Move To is probably a topic for a different thread.

    Finally (I promise), I should add that the Wintergrass event planners did their usual stellar job of putting together a hot line-up and hosting one of the best festivals in the country. Great selection of vendors, and I was also especially impressed with Austin Clark's OM and his other mandos, especially the A-5 (red spruce top, one piece red maple back, varnish finish), which was nothing short of stellar. I thought all the issues with the Murano were due solely to Murano management and had nothing to do with the Wintergrass event planners/personnel, etc.
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  10. #60
    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    I agree with Pete. I think the new convention center would be a much better venue. Would hold everything, jamming, concerts, vendor booths, food. Not sure how the acoustics would be but couldn't be any worse than the Murano.
    As for the attitude of the new owners of the Murano, it's poor to say the least.
    That being said, Wintergrass has been getting less popular for the past few years. I don't think they've figured out a way to make the event friendly and make money, too. The convention center might permit a modest entry fee for hangers on. It certainly could be used to encourage food vendors to participate (the food at the Murano is just short of atrocioius). The loss of vendors, especially the funky instrument makers and sellers, is one of the greatest losses for Wintergrass.
    The whole thing needs more of a outdoor festival atmosphere and less of a concert air.
    IMHO.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    There was a "no instruments" area in front of the hotel bar, and Zeke told me he was asked to leave this area because he had his mandolin IN ITS CASE.

    The present relationship between the Murano and Wintergrass doesn't strike me as a long-term one. I hope there's another solution out there.

    I took a bunch of electric mandolins and hung out in a vendor's booth with them. I got the range of reactions you might well expect, all the way from "That's really cool!" to "That's just wrong!" The J.L. Smith 5-string got most of the attention. Jesse Brock, among others, seemed really impressed with it. But ultimately it went home with ... me. I didn't sell anything, but had some good times.

    I was finally formally introduced to Patrice, the director of Wintergrass. (We'd met casually a couple of times before.) Here's what a fantastic person Patrice is: Twice during the weekend, she bumped into me with my arms full of gear, and both times she offered to help me carry something. How many festival directors do you know who have time to help out the sherpas who walk by?
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    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    the problem I hear being expressed here, seems unfair to the Murano. The hotel serves its customers. Hearing about a jam blasting away at 2 AM in the lobby, this potential customer feels very glad that he didn't stay at the Murano. And I'm sure the Murano is not especially happy to learn that I could never recommend my friends stay there so long as jams are going on all day and all night.

    Lots of people paid $150 for a room there. But they are attending Wintergrass to hear the likes of Mike Marshall, and maybe browse the instruments. Jamming is not why they came. So...5 or 10 different people start calling the management trying to get them to do something about the noise level at 2 AM. Why is that so hard to understand?

    Is Wintergrass unique for being hosted in the dead of winter in a big hotel? There's a good reason, after all, that most festivals of this sort are outside in nature in July. The fact is, there are probably more people who find the noise level in that lobby to be a chronic annoyance, than people who attend primarily to jam. Yes, you who like to jam, really ought to let the Wintergrass promoter know how important that is to you. Insist that they make a place for you to jam at 2 AM. But please, not at the hotel.

    Makes me consider an alternate interpretation of this argument. I am caught in a room with 6 songs being played simultaneously by 6 groups of wildly varying talent. Each song has nearly the same melody, but each is being played at different speeds, with different instrumentation. Some are being played way out of tune. Some are being played by 4 guitars all doing different parts but not in synch. Described that way, it sounds like an interrogation therapy at Abu Ghraib.
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  13. #63
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Gimme a break, Jim. You can't hear the lobby jams from the guest rooms.
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  14. #64

    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Quote Originally Posted by beluga View Post
    The fact is, there are probably more people who find the noise level in that lobby to be a chronic annoyance, than people who attend primarily to jam.
    Funny, I've been going to Wintergrass for many years, and have NEVER heard anyone complain about the jamming. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but it's rare. On the contrary, most people I know, non-jammers as well, think the public/lobby jamming all around is one of the main charms of Wintergrass.

    Quote Originally Posted by beluga View Post
    Makes me consider an alternate interpretation of this argument. I am caught in a room with 6 songs being played simultaneously by 6 groups of wildly varying talent. Each song has nearly the same melody, but each is being played at different speeds, with different instrumentation. Some are being played way out of tune. Some are being played by 4 guitars all doing different parts but not in synch. Described that way, it sounds like an interrogation therapy at Abu Ghraib.
    Anyone bothered by this phenomenon might be advised to avoid bluegrass festivals altogether.

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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    It would be interesting to find out what percentage of Murano customers for that weekend are Wintergrass attendees. My guess is that it is close to 100%. It would not surprise me if the hotel informed guests who book that weekend (assuming anyone could get a room) that there is a huge festival that takes over the whole hotel. I would be quite surprised if more than 5 or 10% of the Murano guests were non-Wintergrassers. Maybe more like 1%, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say 5 or 10%. My point is, was the Murano really getting a lot of guest complaints about lobby noise? Maybe, but I bet they weren't getting too many. Also, there are "jamming floors" (where jamming is allowed) and "quiet" floors (where it's not allowed), so there probably are also not too many guests in their rooms complaining about 3 a.m. jamming. The Marriott also has jamming and quiet floors, and my experience in the past in booking a room at either of these hotels is that they ask you when you book whether you want to be on a jamming or quiet floor. I stayed on the quiet floor in '07 with my wife and then-4-year-old son, and it was indeed quiet. Bottom line is, although it is possible that the Murano's new policies were due to excessive guest complaints, I think it far more likely that they just have an uptight management who does not like all the crazy banjos and mandos howling at the moon 'til all hours in their swanky, bizarrely decorated hotel. That is the basis for my opinion that it seemed almost as though the Murano was trying to drive the festival away.

    (Okay, the comment on the decor was a gratuitous dig, I admit it. Sorry. But that larger-than-life horse with the lampshade sticking out of his head in the lobby is like the result of some grotesque, Star Trek transporter accident involving "Molly & Tenbrooks" and "Keep Your Lamps Trimmed & Burning...")
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    Registered User Christopher Standridge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Regarding the horse at the end of the bar. Last year I witnessed more than a couple of people being shooed off of the back of that monstrosity, but I don't think it just a rowdy bluegrass thing. It is much more universal as I was told by the security that during the previous convention of needle pointers, a couple of little old ladies were told to get off the horse.
    I mean what did they expect when they put a life size horse in a bar?

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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    I too was baffled by the Murano management's seeming intolerance toward the festival bringing them hundreds of thousands of dollars at a time of general economic ruin for the hotel industry. Their primary "customer" to serve during the festival is the bluegrass community.

    My bet is new owners = more $$$ = better (i.e. more risk averse) lawyers. Somebody in corporate counsel got wind of the premise of "a bunch of possibly drunk/high musicians wandering around at all hours of the night, breaking noise ordinances and fire codes willy-nilly, and wandering up and down those trip-prone stairs with expensive guitars/mandos/whatever" and decided it was a liability nightmare. Still, I think they could have been a lot less obnoxious about it.

    For the record, in the floors and rooms I was in at the Murano, and have stayed at in the past, I couldn't hear the lobby jamming. It's pretty well-insulated in my experience.

    The security people themselves were pretty overzealous. I had four different rent-a-cops tell my friends and I to disperse within the span of 5 minutes, well before their self-imposed curfew of 3 AM. They had people patrolling the stairwells once every 5-10 minutes. It was pretty ridiculous, and really was a poor representation of Wintergrass for my buddy from California I brought up for the first time.

  18. #68
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Hey, I enjoy glass art as much as anybody, except maybe Art, our resident glass artist. I went to Murano in 2007, and bought a way-too-expensive letter opener with a Murano glass handle, which my 2-year-old knocked off my desk and broke after I got home, but what the heck. It makes sense to have a glass art-themed hotel a short walk from the Museum of Glass. Count me as one who appreciates both grass and glass. There is no reason they can't coexist.

    Years ago, when it was still a Sheraton, I remember seeing some poor schmuck in a business suit walk into a lobby full of jammers and nearly drop his briefcase in amazement. It certainly would serve the hotel to notify guests that there'll be a music festival and things might get a little crazy.

    Maybe the horse with the lampshade on his head is someone's idea of a party animal?

    Shutting down the jamming at 2 a.m. on the last night of the festival is just wrong. On Thursday or Friday night, fine ... but on Saturday the concerts don't get out until 12:30 or 1, and the jammers want to spend whatever they've got left in the tank before hitting the sack, knowing that they have to leave the next day. Lobby jams at 2 a.m. do not inconvenience anyone except the staff, and maybe the odd bar patron who isn't a festival attendee.

    I agree that the Murano seemed to be trying to protect its bar/lounge area from the jammers. The "no instrument" zone, as I've said, was right in front of the bar. Almost as if you couldn't approach the bar if you were holding an instrument. Maybe they're afraid someone would knock over the horse?
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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Jim, I'll respectfully disagree with you. I know a LOT of folks who come MAINLY to jam and may only go to a couple of show/workshop things. They buy a ticket to support the event. It is those of us who think the Murano basically sucks...
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Quote Originally Posted by rovinmando View Post
    I mean what did they expect when they put a life size horse in a bar?
    They should just give in already and replace that sucker with a mechanical bull.

    Lots of interesting art in the hotel, not just glass art. I encountered a very nice series of hand-numbered woodcut prints depicting Norse gods and goddesses ... in the men's room across from instrument check.
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Although I have never attended wintergrass, I have been to a lot of bluegrass festivals and in my opinion, the late night jams are really one on the greatest aspects of a festival. Many, if not MOST of the top bluegrassers around got their start from late night jams with other musicians in the festival campground, hotel lobby, etc. If a festival goer is opposed to jamming, then it is highly suggested that you stay clear of festivals all together.

  22. #72
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    I think that sooner or later we're all gonna realize that bluegrass festivals are--like baseball--seasonal....

    I sure did...

  23. #73
    Registered Mandolin User mandopete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    Uh, that being said Bruce, you gonna work on Mexi-Grass for next year?



    Oh yeah - if you didn't dig the Murano there were no issues with jamming over at the Marriott. When I cruised through there on both Friday and Saturday nights there were plenty of jamming spaces available.

    In fact when I checked into the Marriott they handed me a flyer that said "Welcome to Wintergrass..." and it had a lot of useful info and stated that they welcomed the jamming (read booking advantage). That's something that the Sheraton never did.
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  24. #74
    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    No need to suggest, Mandojump, that i stop attending bluegrass festivals if i don't appreciate the noise. I am just trying to show an alternative side of this recent event. Like I said, (and like Spruce seems to concur) bluegrass festivals may best serve ALL their paying clientele by sticking to a summer phenomenon. If I could have heard myself better, as on a blanket in some big field, I'd have been very happy jamming with friends.

    And...well, yes...do count me among those who had a good time attending this hotel-based music festival, although primarily to hear (and meet) some inspiring performers and also closely check out the instruments on display, but not necessarily to jam in a hotel lobby where noise seems to approach Navy sonar levels.
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    Registered Mandolin User mandopete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wintergrass

    On another note (Bb) - Did anyone else notice Brent Truitt playing with the SteelDrivers. I really liked his melodic mandolin playing. I had never really heard of him before this, dude has some major props!
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