Jerusalem Ridge-- History?

[mandozilla]

Sparky, sparks a'flyin'. Pager used the phrase "goin' all sparky" in another thread and I like it so much I'm going to use it till I'm (or you are) sick of it!

Mike, "Sparky" is cool.

Ya'll leave Bill alone

I'm with you Billy...I got yer back!

Oh, and Billy, welcome to the Cafe!

[TEE]

I'm looking for the next tune I want to learn, and I've perusing the Monroe classics on YouTube to pick the next one.

This is a good clip. It says in the beginning that Bill wrote this tune, but he only plays rhythm/chops on it.

Isn't that sort of strange that he would write a song for fiddle where he only got to play backup? I realize that it can be done the other way, with mandolin doing the melody and fiddle doing the backup, but it struck me as odd.

Never met the guy myself, but he seems to have a reputation as being a rather strong willed, if not ego-driven sort of dude. Not the kind of guy that would write a song where his role was "second fiddle".

Thoughts?

To get back to the original topic- Monroe wrote very few mandolin songs- Rawhide and Bluegrass stomp being the only two I can think of offhand. Roanoke, Cheyenne, Uncle Pen, Southern Comfort all were primarily fiddle songs. He also knew what he wanted the fiddle player to do.

Take a listen to this ( the first twenty seconds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBhD0D7yk1c

Can anyone else name a song written for Mandolin by Monroe?

As far as Ego driven -man dough he was not a bad man but the bad didn't mess with him. He was easily approachable and would shake and greet everyone in the place. He would give children quarters but you did not order him around. My kind of man.

[Wolfboy]

Monroe wrote very few mandolin songs- Rawhide and Bluegrass stomp being the only two I can think of offhand. [snip] Can anyone else name a song written for Mandolin by Monroe?

Sure: "Tennessee Blues", "Get Up John" and "My Last Days on Earth", to start with...

[Billy1]

To get back to the original topic- Monroe wrote very few mandolin songs- Rawhide and Bluegrass stomp being the only two I can think of offhand. Roanoke, Cheyenne, Uncle Pen, Southern Comfort all were primarily fiddle songs. He also knew what he wanted the fiddle player to do.

Take a listen to this ( the first twenty seconds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBhD0D7yk1c

Can anyone else name a song written for Mandolin by Monroe?

As far as Ego driven -man dough he was not a bad man but the bad didn't mess with him. He was easily approachable and would shake and greet everyone in the place. He would give children quarters but you did not order him around. My kind of man.

Are you kidding? Kentucky Mandolin, Come Hither To Go Yonder, My Last Days On Earth- There's a bunch of 'em!

[evanreilly]

As far as specific 'mandolin' tunes go, I would offer that Bill wrote several.
Include Blue Grass Breakdown, Blue Grass Part 1, Blue Grass Special, Honky Tonk Swing, Get Up JOhn, Kentucky Mandolin, Never Leave the 'A' string, Old Daingerfield, Pike County Breakdown, Right, Right On, Stone Coal.
Plus a good few more!

[swampstomper]

Maybe TEE has his/her tongue in cheek? What about Master of Bluegrass (1981), specifically to highlight ten mandolin tunes. Then many, many that never made it to recording, like Tanyards.

And don't forget the very first recording for Decca in 1950, Blue Grass Ramble, a cross-tuned mando piece with only brief fiddle (Vassar) and banjo (Rudy) half-breaks.

[Billy1]

As far as specific 'mandolin' tunes go, I would offer that Bill wrote several.
Include Blue Grass Breakdown, Blue Grass Part 1, Blue Grass Special, Honky Tonk Swing, Get Up JOhn, Kentucky Mandolin, Never Leave the 'A' string, Old Daingerfield, Pike County Breakdown, Right, Right On, Stone Coal.
Plus a good few more!

As Bill would have said - " It's a way on up there boy " !

[TEE]

No, I wasn't kidding I just aint real smart.

Tennesee Blues, Get up John, My last days on Earth posted by wolfboy are what I consider mandolin written tunes.

Bluegrass Breakdown, Pike County Breakdown, Bluegrass Special are what I always thought of as written for the banjo or just the whole band. Great mandolin breaks of course but I would call them banjo standards.

Tanyards , I thought was written for a fiddle player. I think Kentucky Mandolin is taught as a fiddle tune. (or at least Butch taught it in his thirty greatest fiddle tunes instructional)

I was not talking about songs or tunes that have great mandolin parts in them I was speaking more about tunes that feature the mandolin as the prominent instrument such as Rawhide or Get Up John.

My point weak as it is is to point out that Monroe wrote music for all instruments and in my mind was much more geared from a fiddle standpoint and overall band sound and was not so ego driven to think that the mandolin was the only instrument.

Am I wrong or did Monroe not write about ten times more fiddle tunes to mandolin tunes?

[Billy1]

No, I wasn't kidding I just aint real smart.

Tennesee Blues, Get up John, My last days on Earth posted by wolfboy are what I consider mandolin written tunes.

Bluegrass Breakdown, Pike County Breakdown, Bluegrass Special are what I always thought of as written for the banjo or just the whole band. Great mandolin breaks of course but I would call them banjo standards.

Tanyards , I thought was written for a fiddle player. I think Kentucky Mandolin is taught as a fiddle tune. (or at least Butch taught it in his thirty greatest fiddle tunes instructional)

I was not talking about songs or tunes that have great mandolin parts in them I was speaking more about tunes that feature the mandolin as the prominent instrument such as Rawhide or Get Up John.

My point weak as it is is to point out that Monroe wrote music for all instruments and in my mind was much more geared from a fiddle standpoint and overall band sound and was not so ego driven to think that the mandolin was the only instrument.

Am I wrong or did Monroe not write about ten times more fiddle tunes to mandolin tunes?

Numbers like "Never Leave The A String", "Slow And Easy Blues", and " Bluegrass Ramble" are songs that mainly feature the mandolin and there are just so many others. "Bluegrass Breakdown" was originally a mandolin number. Saying " Kentucky Mandolin" is a fiddle tune is like saying "Dueling Banjos" is a mandolin tune. No Part of Nothin!! Most all of Bill's blues numbers were mandolin tunes . Numbers like "Monroe's Blues"and "Wolftrap Blues". "Southern Flavor" originally featured the fiddle but Bill transformed it into a mandolin number and absolutely dominated it.

[TEE]

I guess I hear a few songs as mandolin based. I hear a few as banjo based. I hear the majority as fiddle based. If you don't agree that's fine.

Sorry, Man Dough for derailing your thread, I was just trying to point out that Mr. Monroe was not an egotistical mando hog but actually wrote a lot for the other instruments. In my opinion he wrote a lot more for the other instruments. The other members are more knowledgable on that point however and I will defer to them. Give him a listen anyway, you want regret it.

[evanreilly]

The original Monroe recording of Pike County Breakdown was as a mandolin lead instrumental. It later evolved into an instrumental with the banjo taking the lead. Same with Blue Grass Breakdown.
And if you think Kentucky Mandolin is a fiddle tune, you need to find the original recording of it, like, NOW!!!

[mandozilla]

Never met the guy myself, but he seems to have a reputation as being a rather strong willed, if not ego-driven sort of dude. Not the kind of guy that would write a song where his role was "second fiddle".

Back to Lee's original post. Make no mistake, Bill Monroe was the BOSS of the Bluegrass Boys. It was HIS STAGE, HIS BAND, HIS SHOW, HIS MUSIC. That's not to say he 'hogged' the show.

He knew that people paid good money to come see 'Bill Monroe' & HIS Blue Grass Boys.

He was an excellent showman who knew that some variety was important. On every show (well, at least the ones that I had been to) Bill always featured the others instrumentally and vocally but it was clear who was the TOP DAWG.

(geez Lee, I did it again!...sorry)

OH. BTW, HAPPY EASTER EVERYBODY!

[swampstomper]

Todd Collins ("Monroe Instrumentals", Mel Bay books MB99962) breaks 25 tunes down as:

1. Mandolin tunes (9): Honky Tonk Swing, BG Stomp, BG Breakdown, Raw Hide, Go Hither to Go Yonder, Right Right On, Old Dangerfield, Evening Prayer Blues, Old Ebenezer Scrooge

2. Single Fiddle tunes (8): Big Mon, Cheyenne, Jerusalem Ridge, Ashland Breakdown, Big Sandy River, Monroe's Hornpipe, Road to Columbus, MS Waltz

3. Twin fiddle tunes (7): Stoney Lonesome, Panhandle Country, Dead March, Scotland, Jenny Lynn, Brown Co. Breakdown, Tall Timber

4. Triple fiddle tunes (1): Lonesome Moonlight Waltz

(I believe Big Mon was written as a twin number but only Bobby Hicks was available on recording day).

(Also, Dead March and Jenny Lynn were from Pendleton Vandiver, I don't think Monroe claimed to have changed them much if any, he was trying to get Uncle Pen's sound into the studio)

Obviously, this is Collins' selection, still we see 9/23 of the Monroe-written tunes are "mandolin tunes" as recorded.

[Billy1]

I miss 'ol Bill.

[Raymond E.]

Evenin'...
Well...since y'all are palaverin' over Monroe and Baker bout a tune...I'll tell you a story about Monroe and Baker. Won't be too long . We left the Opry one Friday night...stopped out at hwy 109 & I-40...Monroe wouldn't pass that truckstop. When we left the driver asked if I would drive a while...I drove to Bristol . Monroe had me to go downtown then to an old,dirty truckstop.
The driver got up and was fueling the bus,Monroe and myself setting up front getting ready to go inside...a real ugly, drunk, fat , woman came walking right up in the bus and sat right down beside Monroe...
She blurts out.."I want to see Bill Monroe "..Monroe says.."Uhhh..would you know him if you was to see him?"...She bellows "Hell yeah,I've seen him a hundred times"....Monroe..."Are you sure you would?",,,"Hell yeah",again....
Well, Monroe points down the hall of the bus...tells her , "He's in the left hand bottom bunk back there,go wake him up"..and starts in to that low chuckle he had...grinning all over hisself...well, she's up and gone fast as she could and time I could get myself off the sofa and quit laughing long enough to get back there...She was down on her knees...pulling Baker out of his bunk.....Baker comes out with his fist drawed back...ready to kill......I was laughing so hard...I really can't remember how in the he!! I got her off the bus...Monroe still chuckling...and did for several days after......he loved it

Raymond E.

[Billy1]

That's a good one Raymond!

[evanreilly]

And, in the 'credit where credit is due' department, I offer a bit of trivia regarding a Monroe instrumental. I do believe that Bill took one of Raymond E's mandolins and twisted it all out of tune and came up with the tune "Stone Coal' while in that obscure tuning.

[Jordan Ramsey]

Priceless, Raymond! Thanks for sharing!

[TEE]

The original Monroe recording of [
And if you think Kentucky Mandolin is a fiddle tune, you need to find the original recording of it, like, NOW!!!

Sounds like standard fiddle phrasing to me right down to the droning strings and twin breaks with Baker. Sorry I had to listen to a newer version- was the original different than the Baker, Robbins version with Monroe? I don't remember, I love the song, but would consider it a fiddle based tune.

[Billy1]

Sounds like standard fiddle phrasing to me right down to the droning strings and twin breaks with Baker. Sorry I had to listen to a newer version- was the original different than the Baker, Robbins version with Monroe? I don't remember, I love the song, but would consider it a fiddle based tune.

Please find the original version and listen to it, and pay close attention to the title of the song- Kentucky Mandolin. I would gladly upload it but I'm afraid since it's copyrighted material I'd get in some trouble with the forum. I can see what your saying about the fiddle phrasing, but Bill wrote this one especially for the mandolin. It is a good sounding number on the fiddle but it's just not the same if it's not played on the mandolin. Fiddle just doesn't put the feeling in it like the mandolin can in my opinion. Sorta like "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" being played by the fiddle instead of one of those long neck, round body things with 5 strings. Just doesn't sound right!

[Skip Kelley]

Raymond, thanks for that funny story!

[Raymond E.]

Mornin'....
Evan , the Stone Coal mandolin you're talking about....that is a 1939 A-50 that was in a house fire...burned the headstock off of it. This made it a perfect candidate for the A-5 conversion...Randy Wood rendered the wonderful job of converting it .
In the studio the day Stone Coal was recorded...Monroe could not get his mandolin to stay in that tuning...was just wearing him out .I told him I would run home and get this A-5..be right back . I did , he tuned it, and recorded Stone Coal...by the way , he got that title from Hobart Skaggs , Rickie's dad .
This happened in dressing room 2 at the Opry...Mr Skaggs mentioned stone coal in a conversation about coal mining,I reckon...Monroe loved it as a tune title .

That 39 A-50 conversion , I sold to Hoot Hester...he loved it , and was a long time friend to Randy...dunno if Hoot still has it...

Loafer

[Fretbear]

"Kentucky Mandolin" is a real important tune of Bill's. It is not that hard to learn or play, and if you heard a fiddle player saw it out it would just seem like a good minor key reel. Bill's tone on it really lets you hear the Loar top to bottom, and the Gm key lets that "ghost" Bb overtone that Bill could always hear in #73987 reverberate. It also stakes his instrumental claim as the originator of the Kentucky bluegrass mandolin style. I'm sure that at the time that he recorded it, as a mandolin instrumental it was totally unique it's tone and drive.

[ralph johansson]

as for monroe mandolin originals no one seems to have mentioned the lonesome moonlight waltz. there's a live recording of monroe playing it with doc watson, in 1964. the 3-fiddle version was recorded in 1970 or 71.

in another thread someone hinted that richard greene may have contributed to the composition. in 1964 monroe had never met greeene. however, it appears that the original bridge is a bit confused; so greene may have helped clean it up a little when playing in monroe's band.

[mandozilla]

Yeah, cause I'm sure Monroe wasn't capable or talented enough to clean up the B part by his lonesome.