virtual mandolin orchestra - youtube

[billkilpatrick]

would anyone be interested in performing an ensemble early piece, making a video and posting it to youtube? ... so that someone ... SOMEONE! ... armed with grabber software and waaay more technical know-how than i have can construct a composite video from the various contributions.

if this appeals - and to keep it simple - i propose that we do "greensleeves." if - say - 5 people want to play, i suggest that one of us kick-off by posting a recording to youtube with at least 5 verses of the song - one of which will be a solo and the remaining 4 played with chord accompaniment.

please let me know: could be a disaster ... could be fun - 'dems the choices.

- bill

[Plamen Ivanov]

I'm in! I think we need to specify some details - key, tempo, etc. It would be great if somebody can post the sheet music of a particular arrangement.

[Acquavella]

Sounds like a great idea. I see that Sonia was chosen for the Tan Dun piece on Youtube.

I think it would be great to do this idea on a larger scale. Would Victor or John be willing to write something? Make it a proper media installation that could be premiered at CMSA convention. It would be great if we could get mandolinists from Germany, UK, Belgium, USA, Italy, Netherlands...etc to do this. You could use the Het consort or PMO as the foundation. I would be up for something like that....as would my students (not by choice, lol).

[vkioulaphides]

Uhm... not to sound like a Luddite, but... what would be appropriate for such a novel medium? I'd LOVE to write something for this Virtual Mando-Orchestra, but what?

If there is a broad interest in performing that Yet-To-Be-Composed virtual mando-work, I, for one, am surely interested in composing it. Let us be realistic, and agree it should be relatively modest in its technical demands. How long should it be? How many (instrumental) parts should it have? What instruments?

I'd be happy to write something, and perhaps the ever generous Jim Garber can post it on his website as a free download.

Ideas? Suggestions? Hmm...

Cheers,

Victor

[billkilpatrick]

victor!!! what a wonderful idea!!! someone would have to step up for the video compilation part but even if i have to count on my fingers to read it ... i'd love to be involved in a performance of your music.

yes! - bill

[vkioulaphides]

So... we are speaking of a brief-ish piece, right? 2-3 minutes long, perhaps? Writing something simple is, rather curiously, NOT a simple project. First of all, of course, I would need to set some parameters.

*churning sounds*

Cheers,

Victor

[David Westwick]

Hi Victor:
You always write such nice mandocello parts -- count me in

[vkioulaphides]

Why... thank you, David.

Of COURSE there will be a mandocello part! Seriously, now, what self-respecting plucked orchestra would dare go on the air bottomless? (I am a bass player, after all...)

So... quartetto classico instrumentation? The mandola part could/would easily come in alternate (i.e. alto and octave-treble) clef notations.

Is the duration I have in mind reasonable? How would the parts be co-ordinated? Ye cognoscenti of the logistics behind the YouTube Orchesta, how did THEY pull it off? Curious, VERY curious to know...

Cheers,

Victor

[billkilpatrick]

:... Ye cognoscenti of the logistics behind the YouTube Orchesta, how did THEY pull it off? Curious, VERY curious to know...

i think we've hit our first snag ...

[Simen Kjaersdalen]

Great idea. This will be a hit - I'm sure of it!

[billkilpatrick]

victor, et al - i subscribe to someone (an australian, working in japan) who regularly posts composite videos with his family's participation, back in oz. i'll write to ask him how he does it or - better still - knows of someone who can edit various videos to your specifications to create a composite video.

david's mandocello and simen's mandolino lombardo should be a tremendous addition to the piece and if i can suggest something (not sure if suggestions help or hinder the creative process for you ...) a few luscious, lingering tremolos from a charango might add color and texture to your piece - probably be easier for me to participèate as well.

looking forward to doing this - it ain't an original idea but it's a good one - hope we all have fun.

- bill

[vkioulaphides]

Good morning, all.

This very morning I got up early, and came to work about an hour earlier than I really need to --the PERFECT opportunity to be left alone, in a quiet place-- and began composing the piece in question.

While it is rather... *ahem*... prenatal to make this public, the new work is titled Passacaglia pizzicata and is, as the title tells, a set of "ground bass" variations (eight variations in total), in four parts. Also as per the title, it is "tailor made" for the sonority of plucked instruments.

In reply to Bill, there is (of course) the bass part, which IS after all the ground bass itself; in the interest of interest, it will not be multiple, EXACT repetitions of the same eight-bar theme, but will have some variations thereof itself. Then there will be a tenor-ish/alto-ish line, and two treble ones.

As far as I am concerned, it does not matter which INSTRUMENT plays which LINE. In the spirit of creative liberty, I will leave that up to the performers themselves, whosoever they may be, worldwide.

OK, this much for now. Back to work...

Cheers,

Victor

[Acquavella]

Victor,

That is pretty much how Youtube and Tan Dun did there virtual orchestra. Tan Dun wrote a piece of music with his instrumention in mind but left it open for any instrument and level the part most appropriate to their instrument & level. Ie.....I believe Sonia played the flute part in Tan Dun's piece. Someone else played the saw on the violin part.

The level of difficulty of the piece is really up to you as well as the duration. 2-3 minutes sounds right for this attempt. The important thing is that you specify strict tempo markings. Everyone who participates will have to record their part with a metronome (with ear piece or muted). This will enable the editor to piece it togther in time. I recommend you check out Tan Dun's piece on Youtube to see how they did it. It is a cool idea and would be interesting for mandolin orchestras.

Tan Dun's Youtube Orchestra

[Acquavella]

It might be good to have a part available in TAB form. This way more people could participate. The MANDOLIN CAFE ORCHESTRA........... just a thought.

[vkioulaphides]

2-3 minutes sounds right for this attempt. The important thing is that you specify strict tempo markings.

At your service: 3 minutes long, quarter-note = 72 M.M. All else (e.g. tremolo) ad libitum.

I will study the Tan Dun piece, as well as the mechanism that made it happen on YouTube, although I confess relative ignorance. Being a composer and not a (presentable) performer on the mandolin, I only hyperlink to the videos of all those many, EXCELLENT performers who grace my works with their own great skill and talent. In other words, I've never uploaded anything to YouTube myself, nor do I foresee doing so. Thus I plead ignorance.

I will, however, have to pass on TAB. Years ago, I was asked by my "clientele" (vis-a-vis GrecoMando Editions) whether I might issue one of our best-selling volumes (the Ionian Mandolinata) in TAB as well. Reluctantly, I agreed. Oh, Chris... I must have spent the WHOLE #$(**#$*#%$_(#&$^#$_#*$( SUMMER figuring out how to notate a VERY simple score, ALL in 2/4 time, in tablature! Ever since my dear mother taught me "the notes", as she called them, when I was about 6 or 7 years old --taking pity on me, as she saw me struggling to "compose" on my rather pitiful recorder and plastic guitar and mandolin-- standard, "Western" notation has been second nature for me. Mind you, I am not putting tablature down, nor am I making any negative comment about those who use it. ALL I'm saying is that... uhm... I won't. Sorry. The piece, however, will be VERY simple to read, I assure you! A "growth opportunity" for TAB readers, perhaps?

Cheers,

Victor

[Acquavella]

Victor,

Sibelius automatically puts TAB down for you. I can help with this if you like. If not...no worries. I was just thinking about the bluegrassers and other cafe members. This might be a good insentive for them to get a teacher...to learn standard notation. I might also be able to help patch the videos together but I have a feeling that there is someone out there way more experienced than I.

The main thing that I noticed on the video I attached was:
1. Almost every musician used a metronome with ear piece.
2. Tan Dun used the LSO as a sound back drop and then "added" the youtube clips on top of that. I recommend doing the same with PMO or Het Consort. This way you have a good foundation for editting.
3. The idea worked because thousands of Youtube musicians took an interest and participated. This idea might not be as cool if only four mandolinists do it. Or maybe it would.

I see Bill's original idea as a unique way to get mandolinists from all over the world to participate in one project together. It will also be the very first virtual mandolin composition...ever! I'm excited to see what you come up with.

[Encore]

This sounds like a very exciting project.

I'd like to try taking part, but fear for my abilities. If we can have parts for players content merely to support the virtuosi that would be nice . Can I also suggest we need more than just an indication of tempo but perhaps a specific BPM setting because otherwise I can't imagine how we would all be in time - alternatively, if somebody (Victor as composer perhaps) can be a virtual conductor, that would be brilliant.

No... I don't know how it would be done either... perhaps the conductor records him/herself and then videos him/herself conducting along to his/her own playing but without any sound... or not... ?

We could then all have the same conductor instead of a metornome and hopefully be in time.

Anyway, I'm game but will not be vieing for a slot as 1st Mandolin (I know my place)

[Encore]

OK If I'd watched the video so helpfully posted before I added my tuppence worth I'd have seen a virtual conductor in action!

[billkilpatrick]

... A "growth opportunity" for TAB readers, perhaps?

... ooo ... but for you (sharp intake of breath) i will do anything! ... read!, even ...

sounds like you're well on the way to completing the piece.

[vkioulaphides]

... we need more than just an indication of tempo but perhaps a specific BPM setting...

Yes, I have already decided on that: quarter-note = 72 M.M., as above, i.e. you set your metronome at "72", and that beat is the quarter-note, straight through the piece. The meter is 3/4, so that it takes 24 bars (3 strains of the 8-bar ground-bass) for one minute of playing time; three minutes are 72 bars, or nine strains of the ground bass. There may be an extra bar-or-so by way of a prolonged, final cadence in the end.

None of the parts will be any "harder" than the others. No need to worry, my friend! Your "place" is among all the rest of us, no higher, no lower.

Also, the main benefit of the Passacaglia form (for this virtual medium) is ease of coordination: you first hear the 8-bar phrase of the basses (mandocelli, or whatever); the "alto" (mandolas, etc.) join in for the SECOND 8-bar phrase, right above the repeated (near-identical) bass-line; the 2nd mandolins (ditto, or whatever), on the THIRD; the top line (1st mandolins or, ditto, whatever) on the FOURTH.

So far we are at the mid-point of the piece. From this point on, for yet another FOUR variations, everybody plays. The NINTH (and final) variation is a free-composed coda (i.e. not as strictly bound to the repetitive pattern of the ground-bass), where again everybody plays along.

Again, some of this is premature. After all, folks, I only started composing this piece less than EIGHT HOURS ago and I've only spent some 20 minutes on it! Let us not rush to carve things in stone before we know what will work best. All I am doing is throwing ideas around, not dictating what will, or what will not be. This is ever the collaborative project!

Cheers,

Victor

[eadg145]

I think the YouTube Orchestra approach might be a bit too aggressive for a first attempt. Heck, the wonderful virtual performance at this link was done with a laptop and a few microphones!

And there are a host of sites like www.indabamusic.com that might accommodate what is being proposed here somewhat more easily than someone making a montage a la the YouTube orchestra.

I'm just sayin'...

And might I grab a few bars of the bass line?

cheers,

David

[vkioulaphides]

And might I grab a few bars of the bass line?

Soon, David, soon...

Cheers,

Victor

[vkioulaphides]

OK, dear friends: the piece has been composed.

Stay tuned for information regarding where the (free) download will be posted. Once the score is online, I will be happy to answer whatever questions you may have (although I have made every effort to make the piece as self-explanatory as possible).

Cheers,

Victor

[billkilpatrick]

I think the YouTube Orchestra approach might be a bit too aggressive for a first attempt. Heck, the wonderful virtual performance at this link was done with a laptop and a few microphones!

And there are a host of sites like www.indabamusic.com that might accommodate what is being proposed here somewhat more easily than someone making a montage a la the YouTube orchestra.

I'm just sayin'...

And might I grab a few bars of the bass line?

cheers,

David

david - the "stand by me" video was wonderful! whole bunch of us were leaping around the place, listening to it ...

the indaba site looks promising - i'll check it out this evening.

my connection in japan/australia sent the following - if anyone has the software, don't be shy:

"There isn't much that I have beyond a Mac and Garageband, really... hehe. The program I use to put our videos together is called Final Cut Pro. This is needed for split screen shots where you can see all of us at once.

If you were to not do the split screen thing and simply cut from one shot to another, then iMovie is really all you need. And Garageband of course!

I don't really have any strong advice for lining everything up and making sure the music is in sync with the video... that basically comes down to a lot of repeated viewings of your video and changing things until it works.

For putting the video onto Youtube, I've used a program called ffmpegX to turn the video files into FLV (it's smaller and Youtube likes it). This isn't exactly necessary, as you can also use MP4.

So, at a bare bones level, you already have the programs that you need! If you want to do anything more involved, then Final Cut Pro is really all you need."

- bill

[Jim Garber]

As per Victor's request, it is downloadable (along with the midi) at the VK Sheet Music Page. It is the last entry. While you are there, take a look at some of the other goodies Victor has made available for download. Thanks again Victor!