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Thread: Southern Italian Mandolin

  1. #26
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Thanks, Chris, for the effort on this. I have printed out any number of these, but have never gone through methodically and generated an overall file like this. I certainly will enjoy it! It is nice to have some songs from the north as well as the south. I also enjoy playing the Abbruzini Quadriglia. A few pages down is a Saltarella by Rapacchietta that I was just playing this am. I like these twisty turny simple melodies familiar to jig players. The odd resolutions here and there make it curious and it sounds very Italian, of course.

    Mick
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    In Amazon or one of those it lets you look inside the book and you can see some of the tunes...I've seen some of the titles.

  3. #28
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    For what it's worth, I've recorded five tunes from this book for my Youtube channel last weekend. I haven't played these very much, and so my playing doesn't quite have the Italian bounce these pieces need, with the pizzica in particular not nearly up to required speed -- John plays these much better on the CD that comes with the book (plus he has guitar backing which helps a lot in getting the pulse going on the dance tunes). I'm still working on getting the feel better, but in the meantime, these clips may give people an idea of what the book is about. These are among the easier tunes; there are more difficult ones, too, that I still need to get my head around. My favourite tune in the book is actually "Tarantella del '600", but I ran out of time on Sunday to make a recording of that one. Some tunes are very short, so I repeat them a few times to make it worthwhile. Altogether, these are clearly folk tunes and quite different from the much more elaborate ballo liscio dances and songs found for example in Sheri Mignano's book.


    La 'ndrezzata -- first part only (I'm still working on the second part)
    La Palumella
    La Sant' Allegrezza
    Cu Ti Lu Dissi (mazurka) -- this doesn't seem to have much to do with the folk song of that name.
    Pizzica Pizzica

    Martin
    Last edited by Martin Jonas; Aug-27-2010 at 6:25am.

  4. #29
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Aha! So it's your channel I've been talking about. Lots of nice tunes, and nice Embergher.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  5. #30
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Aha! So it's your channel I've been talking about. Lots of nice tunes, and nice Embergher.
    Yep, that's me. Thanks for the nice words -- there's a thread in the classical forum here where I've put some comments on a lot of my uploads.

    In the meantime, I got around today to recording and uploading another four tunes from that book including my favourite, Tarantella del '600:

    Tarantella del '600
    Motivo di cantastorie
    Pizicarella Mia
    La Zita Passa

    Martin

  6. #31
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    I followed the link chriss provided and downloaded the program, but don't see how to open the files) the ones from that pdf file) to listen to them. I found an album at itunes that had some of these on it and I can play :30 samples there but that isn't enough to get a good idea of some of them. Surprised to learn they were accordion tunes. Having a little trouble coordinating these information streams into something really useful and would appreciate some help. Thanks!
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  7. #32
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by chriss View Post
    Quadriglia di Abruzzo is index #8 in the ABC file, or at least the one I'm working from. I'll post the ABC file if anybody wants but I'm pretty sure it's the same one the link above goes to.

    Jim thanks for the hint on posting attachments... here's the PDF of the ABC file.

    For Jim and anybody else who might get into it, I'd appreciate it if you'd come back online and post which tunes you're enjoying. There are so many that I've struggled to get thru them all and find more that are worth developing, and I'd like to know which ones other people are enjoying.
    Chris
    Somewhat delayed, but I've been playing around a bit with this file lately -- I've had a decent printout for some years now (quite similar to Chris's PDF but a different and slightly prettier conversion from a now-defunct online converter), but I hadn't looked at it for some time.

    The tunes that I could make sense of and enjoyed on mandolin on a quick playthrough are:

    All five of the Quadriglia from Abruzzo
    Mazurka (from Umbria)
    Furlana
    Valzer Triste
    I Disertori - Valzer
    Mazurca di Ivano
    Giga (from La Ciapa Rusa: ten.. 1d)
    Principessa
    Sbrando del Roero
    Sbrando di Bra
    Monferrina modenese
    Monferrina (from Tre Martelli)
    Brando (from Tre Martelli -- both tunes)
    Courento dla Rocho
    Ballo La Vienna Corentina (although I struggle with the "Suo Saltorello" part)

    If and when I get around to it, I might record a few of these -- probably the two Valzers and the Quadriglia first, which are both easy and good.

    Martin

  8. #33
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    I've been working my way through these too, slowed down a bit by a need to memorize them, plus a long absence from reading music (never my strong point), but repetition is improving that. Starting with the quadriglie - pretty straightforward and not too daunting - my favorite being the one by Veroni, and then Dour, with its delightful double stops in the second part. I kept making the same mistake, which though it increased the difficulty, oddly made it easier. It seems if I was going to make the same mistake anyway, incorporating it into my arrangement made sense. If I ever feel confident enough, I'll post a version.
    Last edited by journeybear; Sep-29-2010 at 8:36pm.
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  9. #34
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Jonas View Post
    If and when I get around to it, I might record a few of these -- probably the two Valzers and the Quadriglia first, which are both easy and good.
    Well, I got around to recording a few of the tunes from that ABC file today, all on my Mid-Mo. I think these are all originally transcribed from accordion recordings (as credited in the ABC), and for many of these there really is a strong accordion feel, particular the Riccardo Tesi waltz. All good fun!

    1. Quadriglia di Abruzzo (Domenico Rosica)



    2. Brando (Tre Martelli) -- there are two of those in the file, this one is the second.



    3. Valzer Triste & I Disertori (Valla/Guglielmetti): These are two separate tunes in the file, but both from the same source CD (called "Traditions of the Oboe", strangely enough), and they work well as a set.



    4. Valzer (Riccardo Tesi):



    5. Ballo La Vienna Corentina e suo Saltarello (Roberto Tombesi):



    Martin

  10. #35
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Thank you for taking the time to record and share these. I especially appreciate the Rosica Quadriglia. I've learned the other four, but the syncopation and lengthy third part of this have given me problems. Hearing it has helped considerably.

    You are correct about these being accordion tunes. I found an album that contains a lot of them here. These are just :30 clips but they help.

    I see you are doing the same thing I am - ignoring the trills where notated. I couldn't get those to sound right, and decided they are suitable for the characteristics of the accordion but not mandolin. Hearing someone who has spent more time with this genre do the same validates my decision. The tunes don't suffer from their omission. Thanks again for sharing these - they are delightful.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  11. #36
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    I forgot to mention - I also combined a couple of these, the two short quadrilie by D'Amico and De Rosa, in that order. They are half the length of the others, and seem to go together thematically. (This also explains the count in my previous post; I already think of them as one.)
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  12. #37
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    I love southern Italian music with mandolins.

  13. #38
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    In case anybody reading this thread has missed the announcement on the Cafe front page: there is a new book on Northern Italian folk tunes, to go with the La Barbera book on Southern Italian tunes. Also published by Mel Bay, this one is written by Carlo Aonzo with Clara Ponzoni and Giorgio Borsani. The Cafe article is here, and the Mel Bay page with samples and list of contents is here.

    I'm a bit surprised there are so few tunes in it, though (only 16 on 78 pages), and that they seem to be more of the "ballo liscio" type also found in Sheri Mignano's book, rather than the more folkloristic material in the La Barbera book or the ABC file we've been discussing in this thread. I'm not sure what makes Speranze Perdute or Tra Veglio E Sonno specifically "Northern Italian" and given that these two are already available for free online, such as on Jim Garber's site, I would have preferred that Carlo had used the space for more obscure material. Still, there is plenty of promising material there, and given Carlo's proficiency as a player and a teacher I would expect that great care has gone into the preparation of the book and, particularly, the CD. I presume there are so few tunes as each of them is longer and more complex than the La Barbera tunes.

    Available at Elderly at Mel Bay's full recommended price of $24.99. However, as a heads-up to UK members, I've just ordered my copy on Amazon UK for GBP 8.71 (plus 2.75 shipping), around half the list price. At that money, it's worth it for the CD alone.

    More once I've received my copy.

    Martin

  14. #39
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    I am also a little puzzled since Munier (altho the tune is Carnevale di Venezia) and Calace are also listed.

    Here is the list of tunes for convenience:
    Al Grott del Fin Remo Giambonini
    Carnevale di Venezia Arr. Carlo Munier
    Cesarina Cesare Pezzolo
    Czardas Vittorio Monti
    Graziella Pino Guerra
    L’Alborela Remo Giambonini
    La Sisina Traditional
    Nina Pancha Josť Garcia
    Ninna nanna Giuseppe Aonzo
    Oh Katia! Traditional
    Polca del Dorin Traditional
    Scugnizza Remo Giambonini
    Speranze perdute Alessandro Morelli
    Tarantella Raffaele Calace
    Tra veglia e sonno Luigi Canora
    Vulcano Mario Cavallari
    Jim

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  16. #40
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    I followed the link chriss provided and downloaded the program, but don't see how to open the files) the ones from that pdf file) to listen to them. I found an album at itunes that had some of these on it and I can play :30 samples there but that isn't enough to get a good idea of some of them. Surprised to learn they were accordion tunes. Having a little trouble coordinating these information streams into something really useful and would appreciate some help. Thanks!
    Just a quick note (i really should get to work) on the accordion thing...

    I was reading an interview recent enough with Stefano Valla, an Italian musican who plays the 'piffero' (a neat little woodwind) and who specializes in traditional regional Italian folk music from the North. In the interview they were discussing how, in his region, dances and processions were originally played with piffero and a native type of bagpipe, the bagpipe later becoming replaced by the accordion.

    Strange to admit, but, I do like that, that there is more to Italian folk music than mandolin.

    Anyhow, I would also suggest to anyone interested in Italian northern folk music to check out Valla's albums with the accordionist Daniel Scurati, they're just fine albums with some good tunes, that they are played on the piffero is a bonus as the melodies stand out that way.

    Also, by way of Northern Italy, i'd reccomend an album by 'Arco Alpino' which presents traditional fiddle music from the Alpen regions. Fair enough, this means that you'll get some French Occidental tunes too, but, considering the history of those regions then one should not be too rigid about respecting todays borders when looking for good folk music The Arco Alpino album has the bonus of the involvment of Patrick Vaillant, a singular mandolin player from the South of France/Occident... his own recording work might also of interest to anyone interested in the music of these regions.

  17. #41
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by M.Marmot View Post
    I was reading an interview recent enough with Stefano Valla, an Italian musican who plays the 'piffero' (a neat little woodwind) and who specializes in traditional regional Italian folk music from the North. In the interview they were discussing how, in his region, dances and processions were originally played with piffero and a native type of bagpipe, the bagpipe later becoming replaced by the accordion.

    Strange to admit, but, I do like that, that there is more to Italian folk music than mandolin.
    Thanks for that -- I also like the Northern Italian tunes, even when there is no mandolin (as is often the case). Regarding Valla, two of the tunes in my clips above (Valzer Triste and I Disertori) are from an album he did with Franco Guglielmetti. I've just come across this great clip on Youtube of I Disertori played by the band Enerbia, which includes Guglielmetti on accordion but not Valla (the piffero is being played by Stefano Faravelli). As there is no moving image, I suspect this has simply been copied from a CD.



    Martin

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by M.Marmot View Post
    Strange to admit, but, I do like that, that there is more to Italian folk music than mandolin.
    There is a lot more to it, for sure. I know I have had this discussion with various folks on these forums, the ballo liscio music is more the urbane folkish or folk style music (by known composers, for the most part) whereas the pure traditional stuff can be quite raw and odd played on flutes and bagpipes.

    I know we are talking about northern Italy, but take a look at this video about southern music played on the zampogna. Imagine tourists getting on a gondola with one of those.

    Jim

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  20. #43
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    I am excited about this collection: not available yet on amazon.us but hopefully soon. Why you can get it cheaper in the UK than here ($16.49) is puzzling. The group I Suonatori della Valle del Savena does a great 'northern' version of Speranze Perdute on horns. An iTunes link to their recording: http://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/emi...ka/id333692054
    I look forward to hearing Carlo's arrangements, ideally less about virtuosity and more deeper melodic feeling-which is what I find compelling about JLB's songs of the south.

    Mick
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  22. #44
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    I've just received my copy of the new Mel Bay Northern Italian & Ticino mandolin book. I haven't played any of the pieces yet or listened to the CD, but a few initial comments are:

    1. This is a somewhat less elaborate production than the La Barbera book: It is thinner and staple-bound, not ring-bound, with much less editorial content compared to pure music.

    2. There is a total of four pages of writing, each in English and Italian: a one-page general introduction followed by a short (and sometimes very short) paragraph on each of the 16 pieces. The English is clear, but sometimes decidely odd, suggesting that nobody at Mel Bay got involved in the editorial process. Not all the info is reliable: for example Carlo suggests that Speranze Perdute was first published in 1950 as a piano piece -- Michael Reichenbach has scans of a mandolin version from 1938 at his web site.

    3. The pieces look to be more complex than those in the La Barbera book, both in terms of the compositions themselves (and most of them are composed, rather than traditional) and in the arrangements. A fair amount of double-stopping and ornamentation, but mostly (though not entirely) in the first position.

    4. Given that the pieces are longer than in the La Barbera book, and are presented in tab and notation, it is more or less inevitable that most of them are spread over more than two pages (the longest is six pages for Monti's Czardas). This means that one needs to make photocopies for performance purposes.

    5. Generally, the pieces are presented in notation and tab for one mandolin voice, with chord symbols for the guitar accompaniment. The exception are Ninna Nanna, which is for unaccompanied mandolin, as well as Calace's Tarantella and Munier's Carnevale di Venezia, both of which have a fully notated guitar part, but in standard notation only (no tab).

    Martin

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Thanks, Martin for the thorough review. I tyhink SP might go further back that even 1938. I do not see a copyright on my scanned version but I would not be surprised if it was more like 20's or teens.
    Jim

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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Jonas View Post
    I've just received my copy of the new Mel Bay Northern Italian & Ticino mandolin book. I haven't played any of the pieces yet or listened to the CD, but a few initial comments are:
    ...
    A quick follow-up to note that it is a bit unclear from the book to what extent Carlo himself was actually involved in the writing of the book: it is credited "by Carlo Aonzo with Clara Ponzini and Giorgio Borsani", but I note that according to the instrumental credits for the CD, Carlo plays on only two out of the sixteen tracks: "Ninna Nanna" is a solo mandolin piece played by him, and "Tra Veglia E Sonno" is a duet with Beppe Gambetta. Of the remaining 14 tracks, seven are duets of Ponzoni on mandolin backed by Borsani on guitar, five are duets of Ponzini with Manuela Maffi Steger, and two have none of the credited authors playing and instead feature Giorgio Caneva on mandolin with three different accompanists.

    Martin

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Seems like the book is already out of stock at Elderly (due 11/18) and Amazon. Who knew how popular it would be.
    Jim

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  26. #48
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to record and share these. I especially appreciate the Rosica Quadriglia. I've learned the other four, but the syncopation and lengthy third part of this have given me problems. Hearing it has helped considerably.

    You are correct about these being accordion tunes. I found an album that contains a lot of them here. These are just :30 clips but they help.
    I've sat down this weekend and recorded a fair few more of the tunes in this ABC file -- there are a lot of fun tunes there, essentially fiddle tunes on acid. This batch is partially on the Mid-Missouri and partially on my Embergher. Changing the mandolin does change the character of the tune, too, at least to my ears.

    1. Due Quadriglie di Abruzzo (De Rosa/D'Amico): These are the two tunes that Journeybear has also combined -- they do indeed work well together and as they're fairly short, combining them makes them roughly the same length as the other quadriglie.



    2. Quadriglia (Veroni)



    3. Quadriglia (Tavani)



    4. Mazurca di Ivano (Valla/Guglielmetti)



    5. Valzer Triste: I've already recorded this with the first batch on the Mid-Mo, but this one is taken a bit slower and in a more somber mood on the Embergher, which I think suits the tune better (the name is the giveaway...).



    6. Saltarella (Yann Dour)



    7. Furlana



    8. Principessa Mazurca



    9. Sbrando de Roero



    10. Monferrina (Tre Martelli)



    11. Brando (Tre Martelli) -- a different one from the one I recorded last week.



    12. Courento dla Rocho



    13. Bisagna (La Ciapa Rusa)



    Martin

  27. #49
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Jonas View Post
    there are a lot of fun tunes there, essentially fiddle tunes on acid.
    Fiddle tunes on acid? Whatever do you mean? I don't hear the psychodelia. Or do you mean excess stomach acid?
    Jim

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  28. #50
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Southern Italian Mandolin

    Maybe a poor metaphor: what I mean is that the rhythms are familiar from, say, Irish fiddle tunes and fall readily under the fingers in a jig picking pattern creating an initial sense of familiarity and comfort, but then the phrasing goes all strange and old-worldy. It's difficult to pinpoint what precisely in these tunes makes them uncannily Italian and distinctly non-Irish, but that's how they are. No mind-altering substances involved...

    Martin

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