Dave Apollon and his 1923 Loar # 73009

[Django Fret]

Here is a Vintage Autographed Studio Photo of Dave Apollon for sale on eB@y.

No financial interest in this, but I thought it was worth posting for posterity.

[uncle ken]

I have a couple of his autographs and I'm not sure that's his signature on the back of that picture. Someone might have just wrote the name of the subject on the back.

[f5loar]

That's the same photo Grisman sold copies of back during the Mandolin World Magazine days. His copy must have been in better shape then this one which looks rather torn and beat. Looks like it would fall apart in shipping.
It is probably the best known photo of his famous '23 Loar which I understand is still for sale to the right buyer.
As far as signatures go it's not a very good one if it's even his, it's on the back and it's in pencil. The front in ink would bring more money.

[danb]

Hmm, I have a signed Apollon B&W (posted picture elsewhere on the board) and the signature isn't quite the same. I'd be curious to see a few more examples

[uncle ken]

Here is one on a signed LP to Dr. Kazaborski. Interestingly, the LP is also signed by Joe Cafiero who played in his band.

[f5loar]

I have about 2 dozen really good examples of his signature from various years in my collection of Apollon "stuff" and I couldn't get it to match either.
Usually he would have signed this in ink. Pencil is what you would use to lightly indentify the artist on the front on the back so it would not show through the photo. Looked small too. Artists are usually consistant in their size of signature. Let's just say if you want this photo for an autograph I'd look elsewhere. If you want it for a photo of his refinished Loar I'd look elsewhere for better quality.
One thing for sure is ole Dave can't tell us if he signed on the back like that.

[danb]

Thanks Ken, mine matches yours.

[Bill Snyder]

I think Tom's explanation makes sense. Who would have the artist sign the back of the photo. Someone just put his name on the back to identify the person on the front.

[uncle ken]

Dan, your photo is a Maurice Seymour. Those are collectable no matter who the subject is. He did lots of celebrities in the 20s. He had a distinct style, very dark and shadowy.

[8ch(pl)]

This is the mandolin that was purchased in a pawn shop here in Nova Scotia for $100. It was pawned by an American Sailor who's USN ship visited Halifax in the early 1960's. A local musician happened on it and owned it for many years. Since Mr apollon was still performing at that time, I am curious as to how it left Dave Apollon's hands to wind up in the hands of the unknown sailor.

[Jim Garber]

I have seen photos of Apollon with different F5s over the years. Bear in mind that it was preferable to have the latest model and newest mandolin as opposed to an older one. There was no concept of vintage instruments in those days. Apollon could afford to buy a new mandolin every few years and probably traded them in at his favorite music store.

[f5loar]

Ole Dave never worried about the price of an F5. He was a major endorser of the F5 and Gibson gave him all he wanted. From the photos he got a new one every 3 to 5 years from 1923 to his last Custom one in 1962.
And from the shipping records his name poped up a lot for repair jobs too. And yes he would sell them for list price when he got rid of them. I have a signed receipt from Dave for selling his '37 F5 at $250.

[Bernie Daniel]

Jim Garber: I have seen photos of Apollon with different F5s over the years. Bear in mind that it was preferable to have the latest model and newest mandolin as opposed to an older one. There was no concept of vintage instruments in those days. Apollon could afford to buy a new mandolin every few years and probably traded them in at his favorite music store.

What you say makes perfect sense.

In fact do you recall the comment (by Frank Wakefield) on the Mandolin Extravaganza CD?

They were talking about PeeWee Lambert's F-5 (it was a Loar) that someone had broken the neck off by sitting on the mandolin in a chair. And as the story goes Lambert just threw it in the trash and someone rescued it and glued it the neck back togather -- somehow subsequently Wakfield ended up with it.

Anyway someone on the CD (maybe Grisman?) was kind of incredulous about that and he said "He (Lambert) just threw it away?!"

To which Wakefield responed "Yeah them days everyone wanted a new one (mandolin) they didn't know them older ones had better tone -- and stuff"

Now you never know for sure what Mr. Wakefield is really saying but its interesting to me that his answer implies the folks back in the late 20's through the 40's had both Loars and the later F-5's yet they did not see the Loars as clearly superior -- now we do.

So how much of our reverence for the Loar is "emotion"?

Just wondering.

[8ch(pl)]

So it may well have been out of his hands long before being pawned in Halifax. That makes sense. The Loar signature probably didn't have as much significance (if any) at that time.

[f5loar]

From the records Dave kept the Loar longer then others.
He had it refinished in the 30's and then had that photo made because it looked new again. Several photos show him with a new Fern but in the background on the piano would be his Loar ready for action in the event of a string break. It's was like cars to some. Somebody has to get the new ones to show them off.
No doubt it was not until the 50's when other pickers found out Monroe had a Loar F5 that the demand went up.
Many ordered new 50's F5s thinking it would be the same.
Remember Lester Flatt played a new 40's F5 years before Monroe got his and nobody seemed to notice it was an F5.

[Bernie Daniel]

He had it refinished in the 30's and then had that photo made because it looked new again. Several photos show him with a new Fern but in the background on the piano would be his Loar ready for action in the event of a string break.

Another tidbit that I did not know - no surprise there. But this makes the Apollon Loar a less-than-ideal as a collector's piece then? That is, not original -- although it still has the Apollon cache/mystique.

But maybe that is part of the reason that it is still for sale?

When the price gets down to under $25K I'll put in an offer

[Chris Keth]

Why on earth is he dressed like that?

[f5loar]

He's a Russian and Russian performers dress that way.
He wore regular USA suits too.

[Chris Keth]

He's a Russian and Russian performers dress that way.

Oh, I didn't know he was Russian.

[evanreilly]

That outfit was the inspiration for the tune 'Russian Rag.
Well, maybe....

[JeffD]

I have seen photos of Apollon with different F5s over the years. Bear in mind that it was preferable to have the latest model and newest mandolin as opposed to an older one. There was no concept of vintage instruments in those days. Apollon could afford to buy a new mandolin every few years and probably traded them in at his favorite music store.

And in that video of Dave playing Sweet Sue, he has what looks to be a Lyon & Healy style A.

[JeffD]

Why on earth is he dressed like that?

Amazing mandolin players can dress any way they want as far as I am concerned.

[Chris Keth]

Amazing mandolin players can dress any way they want as far as I am concerned.

I'm in the boat that thinks he looks like a circus clown with a bad haircut.

[Mike Snyder]

That clown can pick the tar out of a mandolin. I don't care if he goes onstage naked. He is one of the modern masters, and doesn't get the credit he deserves. Probably because of his country glam appearance. Appolon could pick good too.

[mandolirius]

Why on earth is he dressed like that?

He was from Russia but it's mainly because he worked in vaudeville. I've seen a number of the film shorts he made too and he was always dressed in some kind of flambouyant outfit. Dave Apollon was showman.