Wiens #24

[grassrootphilosopher]

I'm sorry I mentioned it now... And I'm with you, I just want to hear that mando sing. And more pictures!

Don´t bother, you didn´t speculate. If you´re into guitars you will find that people like John Arnold or Wayne Henderson have waiting lists that exceed 8 years or more. It might be interesting to know why a wait is so long and there might be an explanation. It´s just for the informed to shed a light on the matter.

Other than that, Justin, break out the instrument, record some and get it posted, we´re all waiting.

[doc holiday]

While some luthiers do have long wait times, those are in many cases given up front, and of course there are sometimes extenuating circumstances. I would say that in the long run the reputation of a luthier depends not only on the qualities of the instruments he makes but also on his business practices in dealing fairly with those who chose to order his instruments. As far as "speculation" let's just say that it's a long way from Germany to Western Canada.

[grassrootphilosopher]

While some luthiers do have long wait times, those are in many cases given up front, and of course there are sometimes extenuating circumstances. I would say that in the long run the reputation of a luthier depends not only on the qualities of the instruments he makes but also on his business practices in dealing fairly with those who chose to order his instruments. As far as "speculation" let's just say that it's a long way from Germany to Western Canada.

It surely is a long stretch from Europe to the new world. On the other hand the world has downsized quite a bit with the advent of the internet, cheaper telephone fares, airplanes and maybe some friends and relations in distant parts of the world.

I agree that the luthier´s reputation is linked closely to his business practiques as well as his craft. Having a Paul Duff F 5 that travelled from Down Under to up here and having waited for about 3 years I can say that Paul Duff has performed in the most extraordinary and perfect way imaginable. I did not wait any longer than he told me when I placed the order. Needless to say that the mandolin surpasses Paul Duff´s reputation in quality and sound. On the other hand there are makers like the legendary Wyatt Fawley (in the banjo business) who went through unimaginable health and other problems which threw him out of the loop and made waiting (almost) unbearable for his clients even though he is still highly respected, and rightfully so.

And like I said, if you are informed about wait times and why they are so prolonged, about Jamie Wien´s bussiness practiques, about the question if he builds full time or part time, of his system of numbering his instruments, spill the beans and let´s get it over with.

Justin Carvitto waited about five years for his instrument when originally it was supposed to be 2 years. Folks in the German Democratic Republic (east Germany) waited 15 years for a car, counting the waiting time after full payment of the automobile.

Was a 5-year wait worth it? Does steak taste better than bramborak? By the pictures I would judge that Justin is well pleased, that he figured the time well spent and that he doesn´t care about the question about steak and bramborak.

More pictures of the instrument and well recorded, well played soundfiles/videos please.

[Chris Biorkman]

Doubling an already long wait time with no explanation is a pretty bad way to do business. I was considering getting on his list at one point, and even though his work is really stunning, I'm very glad I didn't.

[Justin Carvitto]

Hi,

I guess the wait needs to be addressed, this wasn't the intent of the thread... oh well, thats fine. I can understand everybody's opinion.

I did research after John Reicshman recomended that I look into getting a Wiens. He said he puts out quality mandolins and that he was "up and coming". In this "research" I noticed that Jamie took longer than what the estimated date usually was (Stone's article and other wiens owners). So, I was prepared to wait going into this. Yeah, it was a 2 year wait. Yes, it took five years. But the mandolin I ordered wasn't that mandolin I recieved. Jamie totally changed everything he was doing around the 2 year mark to match the new mandolin design. I remember being on the phone with him telling him how much I liked the "Schultz" loar and how it was my dream mandolin. He proceded to strum that exact mandolin on the phone! He had the SCHULTZ LOAR as his new template. I was VERY excited about that.

Yes, it was a tough wait. Yes, my friends teased me about "my new mandolin" pretty much everyweek. But now, I get to bring this awesome mandolin to the jams and YES, I am 100% satisfied and expected nothing less. I'm happy I got the 2009 mandolin vs. the 2004 mandolin with all the improvements (just take a look at the wiens archive). In the long run, 5 years wait is nothing to 50 years of ownership.

I'm excited to see what Jamie puts out in the future with his untraditional touches. Also I noticed that Jamie did change his ording policy.

I'm surprised Dan B. hasn't replied to the thread actually...he's like the Wiens liaiason/public spokes person.

Sorry Grassroots: sounds and video are out of my league. I'll try to do photos, but it won't be for another month or so. I'll be on a climbing road trip for the rest of the summer.

[Chris Biorkman]

Well it looks fantastic. Clearly, he is very good at what he does. Have fun with it.

[deepmountain]

I agree he makes a fine mandolin, that's why I ordered one from him and sent him $5000 over the first two years, thinking luthiers need some cash flow. If he would have told me it would be five years at the beginning I would not have ordered one from him. I was 62 years old when I put down the initial deposit to get on the list. After 4 1/2 years of waiting, he would not give me any idea of how much longer it would be. And when he answered my inquiry by calling me a "PIA" and telling me "he could build them good or he could build them bad" I cancelled the order and forfeited the $450.

I grew up on bluegrass music with the kind of people whose word was good and treated people with courtesy and respect. Anyway, when I got my money back I bought an R.L. Givens F5 from Cotton Music and I couldn't be happier.

So keep pickin'!

[danb]

I'm surprised Dan B. hasn't replied to the thread actually...he's like the Wiens liaiason/public spokes person.

Jamie's my friend, but I'm not in his spokesman. I have talked alot about my own instrument through pride and the sheer joy of having it- I think he knocked the "Loar style F5" project out of the park. I know I've smothered this board with photos and praise for Jamie, matching my own level of excitement.

The process of working on the Loar redesign (my instrument!) took up way more time than Jamie had originally budgeted. I'm not sure what the trigger was, but we both had Loar fever and he went all in. We traded hundreds of emails, many long phone calls, and lots of photos showcasing details of construction and what makes the Loars physically what they are. He borrowed a couple Loars during the build, made design changes, measurements, etc in this process too. This was a complete re-design of all his parts, manufacturing process, and included many experimental paths to get it right. Once he got dialled into 76547 specifically, there were even more details to hunt down to see what gave that mandolin it's voice.

The waits are indeed longer than he planned, mostly on the back of this redesign. The result is a heck of a lot more mandolin than was originally ordered.. once it arrives that's certainly a lot of consolation for the time spent waiting. The wait is hard, waiting sucks. All the satisifaction comes in one lump sum at the end, and the interim give you plenty of opportunity to worry and experience anxiety.

Justin's F5 looks fantastic, and I hope we can meet up some day and play them together!

[Jonathan James]

Much like Justin, I did an enormous amount of research into up-and-coming luthiers when I elected to send in my deposit to Jamie for a custom built F5 some time ago. The mandolin I will shortly take delivery of will be 10X more instrument than I originally ordered. Do I wish the wait was shorter? Of course, but I'm extremely confident that the instrument I'm getting will greatly exceed all of my expectations. Ask the experts like Tony Williamson, Tom Rozum and John Reischman; Jamie Wiens is building some of the closest Loar replicas out there today, to incredibly exacting standards. That pursuit of perfection takes time, but I for one, am willing to wait happily. Others may not, but that's the beauty of our little mandolin world. There are lots of builders to choose from.

[Chris Biorkman]

Do you know if he has another job? It looks like he has made three mandolins in the last three years, so it seems like he does.

[Mark Seale]

Jamie's my friend, but I'm not in his spokesman. I have talked alot about my own instrument through pride and the sheer joy of having it- I think he knocked the "Loar style F5" project out of the park. I know I've smothered this board with photos and praise for Jamie, matching my own level of excitement.

The process of working on the Loar redesign (my instrument!) took up way more time than Jamie had originally budgeted. I'm not sure what the trigger was, but we both had Loar fever and he went all in. We traded hundreds of emails, many long phone calls, and lots of photos showcasing details of construction and what makes the Loars physically what they are. He borrowed a couple Loars during the build, made design changes, measurements, etc in this process too. This was a complete re-design of all his parts, manufacturing process, and included many experimental paths to get it right. Once he got dialled into 76547 specifically, there were even more details to hunt down to see what gave that mandolin it's voice.

The waits are indeed longer than he planned, mostly on the back of this redesign. The result is a heck of a lot more mandolin than was originally ordered.. once it arrives that's certainly a lot of consolation for the time spent waiting. The wait is hard, waiting sucks. All the satisifaction comes in one lump sum at the end, and the interim give you plenty of opportunity to worry and experience anxiety.

Justin's F5 looks fantastic, and I hope we can meet up some day and play them together!

So, really if we break this down to its bare minimum, it was your fault that everyone got 2.5 years added to their wait time.

[Woody Turner]

As a professional woodworker and writer for the last 30 years, it's hard for me to imagine circumstances that would delay--without penalty to the artist--project completion much beyond a specified deadline. Honoring contracts is what it means to be in business. If illness or tragedy or whatever strikes the studio, the commission or advance should be forfeited at the client's request if an accommodation cannot be made. Whether the artisit is pushing the envelope or making a monumental contribution to the field is--IMO--irrelevant: one's word has been given and should be honored. I still believe that artists and artisans can innovate and experiment while/after fulfilling their commitments. Of course, I don't know what the original agreements were in the instances of disappointment mentioned above. I'm just speaking about the general principle of living up to oral and written contracts.

[sgarrity]

Some folks are betters artists than business people. From the looks of the pics and sound clips, these mandolins are the real deal and Jamey is an amazing artist. Hopefully he'll get caught up and put some proper business practices in place.

[MandoCowboy]

Time for a Weins mandolin role call. Who has one and who has one on order?

[grassrootphilosopher]

MandoCowboy wanted to know who´s got a Wiens and who´s got one on order.

Now there are three threads right now that sort of run in the same vein, Ken Olmsted´s "Brentrup Stealth" thread, Jonas´ "Campanella" thread and Bjorkman´s thread on "Vana" (due to the old "Vana" thread and the Bill Graham article).

I think that comparison is a nice thing. I like to know about the builders and their products. So I´m giving this thread a bump, hoping that it receives some more feedback.

Justin, if you´re back from your climbing road trip, I´d like to see more pictures and hear your instrument played. I´d also like to see aditional building pictures (other than those on the Wiens homepage).

[Yonkle]

Jamie's Mandolins rule! Period.

[MandoCowboy]

Yonkle,

Do you own a Wiens Mando?

[mandomick]

Hey all! Haven't posted for a spell, been in the "Telecaster and Tweed tube amp" mode for a year or so.

Looks like Jamie built a winner for Justin. Congrats on both ends. But....

For a builder to go 2 1/2 yrs over projected delivery, call the inquiring customer a PIA and then KEEP $450 of his deposit? I don't care who Mr. Wiens thinks he is, he ain't even close to being all that!

[doc holiday]

Interestingly enough there is a build spot for sale for a Weins.
Sounds like a lottery ticket

[Glassweb]

when we place an order for a custom-built mandolin there is always the possibility that the instrument, for any number of real or imagined reasons, will not be delivered/completed when promised. frustrating? YES! what can we, as patrons do? i wish i had the answer. i went through a similar experience years ago when i ordered a mandolin from a well-known builder and he proved to be very lax with his committments. when the mandolin finally arrived i didn't care for it and i got my money refunded. it's the risk you run in a custom order... that's why i prefer buying already existing instruments...

[lmartnla]

If you ever wonder what acronyms stand for, try the useful website I just found while searching for the meaning of PIA, used in the deepmountain post above.

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/PIA

My guess is that 'pain in the ass' was meant, but in the context it could have been payment in advance, Planned Incremental Availability, procurement integrity act, Part in Assembly, or Program Initiation Agreement---Lou

Acronym Definition
PIA Philippine Information Agency
PIA Professional Insurance Agents
PIA Privacy Impact Assessment
PIA Pakistan International Airlines (ICAO code)
PIA Parachute Industry Association
PIA Pittsburgh International Airport
PIA Printing Industries of America
PIA Pearson International Airport (Toronto, Canada)
PIA Primary Insurance Amount (US Social Security)
PIA Primary Interop Assembly
PIA Personal Investment Authority
PIA Pain In the Ass
PIA Peripheral Interface Adapter
PIA Prison Industry Authority (California)
PIA Primary Immunodeficiency Association
PIA Peoplesoft Internet Architecture
PIA Paid In Advance
PIA Planned Incremental Availability
PIA Payment In Advance
PIA Products in Action
PIA Personal Injury Accident
PIA Plastics Institute of America
PIA Proprietary Information Agreement
PIA Participatory Impact Assessment
PIA Professional Inventors Alliance
PIA Procurement Integrity Act
PIA Porcine Intestinal Adenomatosis
PIA Progressive Indirect Attack
PIA Partnership Intermediary Agreement
PIA Peoria, IL, USA - Greater Peoria Airport (Airport Code)
PIA Parent Interviews for Autism
PIA Programmable Interface Adapter
PIA Public Information Agency
PIA Protein Interaction Analysis
PIA Particulate Impact Analyzer
PIA Program Independent Assessment
PIA Photometers for Imaging the Aurora (Astrid-2 spacecraft)
PIA Propagation and Infection Analysis
PIA Propellant Isolation Assembly
PIA Public Information Advisor
PIA Part in Assembly
PIA Programme Implementation Agency (India)
PIA Process Improvement Associates (training and management consulting company)
PIA Priority Inversion Avoidance
PIA Program Initiation Agreement
PIA Power Injected Amplifier (structured home wiring for cable TV, internet, & audio distribution)
PIA Pyongyang International Airport
PIA Post Instructional Activity (aka homework)
PIA Photon-counting Image Acquisition
PIA Pre Infarct Angina
PIA Power Interface Assembly
PIA Program Initiation Authorization
PIA Perfect Information Algorithm
PIA Plant Inspection Assistant
PIA Packet Immediate Assignment
PIA Proxy Interceptor Agent

[Jonathan James]

Interesting development in the classifieds....I can't recall seeing a spot on a builder's waitlist being sold. Someone could end up with a very nice instrument, at a fraction of the wait time. (NFI)

[man dough nollij]

If you ever wonder what acronyms stand for, try the useful website I just found while searching for the meaning of PIA, used in the deepmountain post above.

I thought it was obvious from the context that PIA stands for Particulate Impact Analyzer.

[MandoCowboy]

I thought I'd get more play from my request for a Weins Mando role call.

Strange how a builder has built only 3 mandos in the last 3 years. Maybe that's the reason.

There appears to be a high level of writeups in national pubs, and other related internet sites. 3 mandos in 3 years seems a short sample size. I would think that a builder would have to have a longer track record to get such recognition.

The announcement of #25 on the cafe was in a very strange way.

Some weirdness going on here?

[Randy Smith]

Over All this mandolin is awesome. It sounds and plays better than it looks, which is pretty impressive. Jamie does a great all-around job as many people already know. I'm a super happy.

Enjoy,
Justin

Justin, congrats on the beautiful mandolin! Get Sasquatch to play you some rhythm.

You enjoy too,

R.S.