plastic nut, yes or no?

[Paul Hostetter]

A lot of materials work well with nylon strings (or fat strings like bass and cello) but can't take what happens with steel strings, particularly unwound ones. They just don't hold up, and this includes just about every wood there is. Even zero frets develop divots from string vibration. Unless you want to keep changing or fixing the nut for the sake of the look of some material, best stick to the old standby, namely: bone. It's cheap, plentiful, easy to work, and has a very well-known track record.

Osage orange makes a very good board, I've used it on violins and mandolins and even on a guitar once. It is extremely durable and easy to work, fairly analogous to a good rosewood, except for one thing: how it looks. It does darken nicely, but never becomes as dark as rosewood. It's a hard sell for many people. It wouldn't make any better a nut than rosewood.

[Michael Nelson]

I think that a bone or Tusq nut probably makes more difference on an acoustic guitar than it does on a mandolin due to guitarists' propensity for using lots of open strings. On a mandolin where most notes are fretted / closed, I can't see how the nut material makes much if any difference.

That's how it seems to me, anyway.

[whistler]

Any thoughts about using meerchaum (Turkish soapstone) as a nut? --- Ed Lee

I like the idea of a soapstone nut: hard-wearing, but soft enough to be easy to work - and, above all, self lubricating.

There must be a catch somewhere...

[whistler]

...although, I see that meerschaum is not the same as true soapstone (which is predominantly talc), so I don't know if it has the same lubricating properties.

[Paul Hostetter]

I like the idea of a soapstone nut: hard-wearing, but soft enough to be easy to work - and, above all, self lubricating.

There must be a catch somewhere...

Try it. Really test it. I'll bet you dollars to donuts it won't be worth a darn. Untreated, soapstone has a hardness of 1 on the Mohs scale. Think about it.

I just don't understand why people want to theorize about unknown materials when the known ones are such certain entities. If you think something might work, use it on a few dozen instruments and put them through the paces for a few years and then report back.

Meerschaum (which translates as "sea foam") is so light and fluffy it floats in water. It's lighter than, but analogous to, plaster of paris. Great heat-insulating qualities, really soft, but are these qualities one would want for a nut?

[man dough nollij]

Meerschaum (which translates as "sea foam") is so light and fluffy it floats in water. It's lighter than, but analogous to, plaster of paris. Great heat-insulating qualities, really soft, but are these qualities one would want for a nut?

You know, I have had consistent problems with my (mandolins') nuts bursting into flames. Meerschaum might be just the ticket...

[Paul Hostetter]

Hmm, hadn't thought about that!

[Gail Hester]

On a mandolin where most notes are fretted / closed, I can't see how the nut material makes much if any difference.

As Paul suggested, try some non-traditional materials for a nut. I have and found that most of the suggested materials that are outside of the norm will kill a great sounding mandolin mandolin. One is ivory (not fossalized), it's just too soft. Try an aluminum bridge sometime if you want to shatter some glass. I believe that just about everything on a mandolin contributes something to the sound.

[dwhite]

This is kind of on another subject, but I use the tip of a pencil to lubricate the slots in the nut and bridge on my instruments. It looks invisible on ebony (violin, cello) but does stand out on a white nut. Is there a white material that works as good as graphite?

[Brent Hutto]

Any pencil graphite that you can see once the string is installed is not doing you any good. I usually put a good bit in the slot, seat and tune up the string then "erase" or clean the excess black stuff. Unsightly problem solved!

[Paul Hostetter]

A properly cut bone nut needs no such "lubrication."

[Brent Hutto]

Paul,

Agreed. Out of my three guitars and one mandolin I have two properly cut bone nuts and two nuts that need lubrication.

P.S. My 34-year-old classical guitar has its original nut and one of the wound string slots is showing signs of no longer acting as though it were properly cut. It does want to catch a bit. Maybe I'll treat it to a bit of pencil lead on its 40th birthday.

[dwhite]

Thanks Brent and Paul. But what do you mean about a properly cut slot? On my cello, I cut the slots in the nut so that most of the string is above the slot and then super polished the slot. This after a local music shop did such a bad setup that strings were breaking regularly. Because of the expense of cello strings, I still use graphite, in fact, it was this cello experience that gave me the idea about pencil lead.

But on guitars, violins and mandolins the slots on the high strings are so small that I can't figure out how to polish them. I've been noodling around fixing instruments for a couple of years and I tell you, that is one thing I would really like to know.

Also, if you have any tips about properly cutting a bone nut for a mandolin, I'm all ears. I ordered an IV kit yesterday and will soon have to cut nut and bridge slots.

[Paul Hostetter]

Cutting nut slots is the same whether for mandolin or violin, bass or guitar. My primary work is violin family instruments, and once again, there's no need whatsoever for a lubricant on a nut for any of them either. (There's no graphite in pencil lead anymore, anyway.) If the slot is cut right and burnished, and they tend to burnish themselves through actual use, the string slides effortlessly. I have a page about this here.

Somehow ebony has become the standard nut material for viol and violin family instruments, but the old Italian guys, Stradivari and Guarneri del Gesù and their crowd, all used bone. Most have been altered.

[dwhite]

Thank you Paul!

[dwhite]

What do you use to cut the semicirular slots? And what do you use to burnish the slots? Would old strings work? Thanks for the advice.

[Paul Hostetter]

There are rather nice nut files available here and there. Long before any of them were available, I trained as a goldsmith which gave me a different kind of tool selection that I still use:

1) a couple of different three-corner jeweler's files for E and B (and for marking the other slots if I'm starting fresh).

2) mousetail file from Shar. They're made by Grobet and they taper from .060" down to .018 or so, if you don't break the tip off.

3) another jeweler's file that has a rounded edge with a .022" radius, which is often the ticket for wound G's on guitars. Pretty much I just use 1 and 2.

I also have larger files for bass and cello.

I am uninterested in the commercial sets, but I'd learn to use them if they were all I could get. I do mostly repair, which means I'm dealing with different instruments all the time. If I was doing the same thing over and over, perhaps a commercial set would be more appropriate.

[Loretta Callahan]

I've worked with two mandolin luthiers. Both recommend bone nuts. Like my mechanics, I obey them. My current "beater" mandolin had it's plastic nut replaced with bone and I think it sounds great. Oh, and my cars have always run well for a long time.

[Rick Back]

As the OP of this thread over one year ago, I had no idea there would be so many replies for so long. I remain a newb both as a luthier and player. I am using bone, BTW.

Rick

[dwhite]

Thanks again Paul. It's funny, I was a gold and silversmith also and did watch repair up to 15 years ago. I'll have to look over those tools. They've been sitting in a couple of jewelers benches for the past 15 years forgotten about.