Ranieri method

[Rob MacKillop]

I want to explore the classical style, and today picked up a copy of Ranieri's method book, and now have a few questions:

1. Am I right in thinking that the entire first ten pages of music - excercises 1 through 15 - are to be played tremolo?

2. Is 'staccato' just another way of just saying non-tremolo.

3. Why only down strokes for staccato? Are all the scales and arpeggios in Ex.s 17 and 18 to be played just down strokes?

4. Generally from then on, it is unclear what is to be played tremolo and what isn't...

5. Are there other methods in print for this style?

Rob MacKillop

[vkioulaphides]

Hello, Rob, and welcome among us.

Your questions beg another one: where did you find Ranieri's Method? Also, which volume(s) were you able to find? I —and others, I'm sure— would love to know!

Generally, all-down-stroke is the "bread and butter" of (classical) mandolin-playing— assuming, of course, that the tempo is not too fast. This is not a hard and fast "rule", and you can find more than a few exceptions; it is, however, "common practice".

Also, the question of when to use tremolo and when not to is a truly HUGE topic! All I can say, in brief, is that it depends on the style, the performer's taste, the technique addressed by a given etude, the historical period in which a work was composed, the "fashion of the day", etc.

Finally, as for other methods, yes, there are numerous: Calace (I own and prefer the six-volumes-in-one edition), Branzoli, Cristofaro, Bickford, Pettine, and many others; supplemental materials, such as scale-books and etudes have been authored by Munier (esp. Lo Scioglidita), Goichberg, Pettine, and far too many others to recall and mention all at once.

If I can find a copy of the same volume(s) of Ranieri as you have, I will hazard a more "educated guess" at the answers to your questions.

Cheers,

Victor

[Rob MacKillop]

Many thanks for your considered reply, Victor.

I had no idea Ranieri's L'Art de la Mandoline was so hard to get hold of. I just got it in my local music shop (Rae Macintosh in Edinburgh). It looks a brand new print, obviously a facsimile. It says it is published by Cranz in 1956, and now I see that it is volume 1 (how many volumes?). Well, it certainly doesn't look like it was published in 1956, but there is no other date.

Wow - all down stroke? That will take a bit of getting used to. I'm used to playing thumb-index or down-up with a plectrum in order to mirror the strong-weak beats of bar/measure. Imagine asking a violinist to only use down-bows?!

Thanks for listing other methods. Now it is your turn to tell me where I can get them ;-)

Rob

[Rob MacKillop]

Here are some copies:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mandolin-Met...2824331&sr=8-2

Rob

[Alex Timmerman]

Hello Rob,

Nice to see you here!
The manner you describe above for the thumb-index (down/heavy and up/light) to play the lute, cittern and English guitar with regard to the strong-weak beats of a measure, is also the right way to follow when you want to play the mandolin correctly.
Since you are, as I understand, an experienced performer on the lute and English guitar I would recommend you to study the old mandolin methods written for the Mandolin(e) (to be more precise: the double metal strung Neapolitan Mandolin tuned GG-d'd-a''a-e''e'') of the mid 18th Century. The ones by Leone, Fouchetti, Denis published in Paris.

In these early methods you'll find many explanations how to use the plectrum in mandolin music. Interesting and very valuable knowledge for the right approach when dealing for instance with single line melody playing in the various measure types from 2/4 (n v) to 6/8 (n v n n v n) etc. and for example for the plectrum execution of 3 or 4-note chords over 3 or 4 strings (“coups de plume”) etc. (for instance: n n v-n n v or-and n n n v-n n n v).


DENIS, Pietro, 18th c. [Method, mandoline] Méthode pour apprendre à jouer de la mandoline san maître; Second partie de la méthode pur apprendre; Troisième et derniè partie de la méthode pour apprendre/
[P. Leone:] Méthode raisonnée pour passer de violon à mandoline et de l’archet à plume /
[G. Fouchetti:] Méthode pour apprendre facilement à jouer de la mandoline à 4 et à 6 cordes. Geneva, 1983. 22 x 30 cm, c.180 pp. Line-cut of the Paris, 1768-69, 1768, & c.1770 editions. The mandoline was in vogue in Paris between 1760 and 1785. These complementary treatises describe the technique and repertoire. Wrappers. $116 [item no.3305]

besides these three, there is also the tutor by Michel Corrette to look at:

CORRETTE, Michel, 1709-1795 [Method, mandoline] Nouvelle méthode pour apprendre à jouer en très peu de temps de la mandoline. Préface de François Lesure.
Geneva, 1984. 17 x 24 cm, vii, 50 pp. Line-cut of the Lyon & Dunkerque edition, Paris, 1772. Discusses the hold, tuning and fingering of the instrument, as well as “coups de plume”, ornamentation and realization of figured bass. Pieces for 2 mandolines or for mandoline and bass. Wrappers. $40 [item no.999]


These are facsimile re-prints that can be had/ordered in the better musicshop. Or via the internet (here is a good link: http://www.omifacsimiles.com/cats/lute.html).

The approach to mandolin playing these early tutors display is also apparent and felt in the later, 19th Century methods for the Modern Roman/Neapolitan Mandolin, like Ranieri's 'Art de la Mandoline' and the ones Victor mentioned above.


Best and success,

Alex.

[vkioulaphides]

Wow - all down stroke? That will take a bit of getting used to. I'm used to playing thumb-index or down-up with a plectrum in order to mirror the strong-weak beats of bar/measure. Imagine asking a violinist to only use down-bows?!

Hello again, Rob.

For all other information, I defer to my dear friend Alex, who is a true authority on the matter, as he is a mandolin (and guitar) educator by profession, and thus has daily, hands-on experience on the efficacy of these methods. I only reply to the question addressed to me and, in a sense, is closer to my own, personal experiences.

Yes, there is in fact a "culture shock" one experiences when living between bowed instruments and the mandolin. I am a (classical) double bass player by profession myself, and the bow of course has its natural, "native" down-up mechanism. What I said holds some, limited truth: there is a desideratum of evenness, and all-down-stroke playing satisfies it.

In exceedingly crude terms, much of day-to-day mandolin playing boils down to single-(down)-stroke una pennata, down-up pennate doppie, and, of course, tremolo. Yet there is also a world of delicacy and refinement in somewhat more "educated" mandolin-playing, and I should do it grave injustice if I tried to reduce it to a handful of arbitrary Do's and Don'ts. I am sure you are applying the proverbial grain of salt to all of this.

The methods Alex lists —I own copies of Denis and Leone in facsimile— do go into some of the finer, yet commonplace points of mandolin playing, namely "glide-strokes" across strings, metric placement of down-strokes, playing in compound meters (e.g. 6/8), etc. As you are apparently coming from a lute background, I can only second Alex' expert recommendation of those texts. I do not, however, know what the best source(s) for them might be.

I got my copy of Calace's Method from the Calace family shop, via the internet; it is also published (in the German edition) by Trekel (trekel.de). In fact, I would make a broader, sweeping suggestion that you look up any and all methods on Trekel's site, by way of a first step on your foray. Trekel is a true treasure-trove! For U.K.-based sources, I would contact your fellow-Scot —and also my friend— Ian (username: trebleclef), who frequents this sector of the Café.

Once again, welcome, and enjoy the journey!

Cheers,

Victor

[Rob MacKillop]

Well, many, many thanks to both of you for this most valuable information. This is a learned corner of the cafe, indeed.

I am still uncertain where my muse will lead me, which period, instrument, style. The talk of nnv nnv for 6/8 and such like, put me back on more familar territory. So the French 18th-century tutors look accessible.

I'm unclear as to the difference between the 'modern Roman' and Neapolitan schools. The French tutors are described by Alex as being for the Neapolitan mandolin - is that regional appelation to distinguish it from the 5- or 6-course treble 'lute'? And how does it differ from the Modern Roman?

Does the Neapolitan instrument cover late mid-18th-century through to Beethoven? And how much further?

And when does the tremolo appear on the scene?

Regards,
Rob

[vkioulaphides]

... and with these questions, Rob, you have come full circle, as it were: Silvio Ranieri, whose Method you have procured, IS the Proud Papa of the "Modern Roman" school of mandolin-playing. In fact, due to his life-long collaboration with luthier Luigi Embergher— the Proud Papa of the (final, and finest culmination of the) Modern Roman mandolin itself—he is the "key figure" in the development of this entire school.

Instead of offering some of my usual platitudes, I would highly recommend that you look up the embergher.com site, expertly designed and diligently maintained by my friend Alex Timmerman. It will tell you more than I ever could.

I will offer only one, important clarification: when speaking of the Neapolitan mandolin, we are speaking crucially of the violin-like, GDAE tuning, in contradistinction to all the other types of mandolin, e.g. Lombard, Milanese, etc. many (but not all) of which were tuned otherwise. The "Modern Roman" mandolin, however, is tuned identically to the Neapolitan. Thus it is distinguished from it not in the same manner as the Neapolitan is from the otherwise-tuned early instruments, but mostly in the manner of its construction (radius-shaped, super-narrow fingerboard, arched, often compensated bridge) and the long, symmetrical pick with which it is commonly played—aptly named "Ranieri" pick. In my opinion, the Modern Roman mandolin and its manner of playing is the most violin-like there is.

OK, I sign off and go to work. I've got not one, but FOUR pieces I should be composing right now—one of them, in fact, for my friend Alex. Do look the embergher.com site. It will give you plenty of information, and more than just a few thrills.

Cheers,

Victor

[vkioulaphides]

For your convenience, this

http://www.embergher.com/

is the site referenced.

[Rob MacKillop]

Victor, you are a treasure. So I stumbled on the modern Roman school by accident. OK. I've been told that the Embergher's have very narrow string spacing, whereas Calace instruments have a wider nut. Is that correct? Is the Calace still regarded 'modern Roman' or something else? But it seems like you are busy, so hopefully someone else will enlighten me. You have been more than generous already.

[Schlegel]

Calace is very much in the Neapolitan style, in fact I believe it is about the last firm still going that was around at the formation of the modern style.

One more visible construction difference is that the Neapolitan mandolin has a very "half an egg" shape, while the Roman school (as exemplified by Embergher) has at the neck block a sinuous recurve, leading to, IMO, a slimmer, more graceful join between neck and body. This is not to say that the Neapolitan style is unbeautiful, just that it presents a more rotund aspect.

[vkioulaphides]

One last word, as night descends upon New York...

Yes, Emberghers have very narrow fingerboards, some 24-25 mm. wide at the nut. Calace's instruments vary, and I (think) I recall some vintage instruments from this shop's illustrious past with nuts as wide as 28 (or even 29?) mm. I, however, am the happy owner of a 2004 Model 26 Calace, whose nut is no wider than 26 mm.— thus only slightly wider than an Embergher. By way of comparison, some Modern German School instruments exceed 30 mm., and then some...

No, Calace's instruments are decidedly not considered "Modern Roman", as they lack the radius-shaped fingerboard, the correspondingly arched/slanted bridge, the sharply contoured V-neck, and all the other characteristic, "Romanesque" traits. In fact, I would dare say that the Calace model/style/phenotype is THE quintessence of the "Modern Neapolitan" mandolin: flat fingerboard, round, U-shaped neck —although it does taper upwards— and the characteristic "stoutness" that is the hallmark of the typical Calace bowl.

It is a small world... Silvio Ranieri, although of course Italian, was professor of mandolin in Brussels, Belgium. Many, if not most extant Emberghers are therefore to be found in and around the Low Countries, not in Italy itself. The two premier groups that use a virtually all-Embergher instrumentarium are La Napolitaine in Belgium itself, directed by Ralf Leenen, and Het Consort in the Netherlands— the latter directed by my friend Alex Timmerman. To paraphrase an old commercial, "When Alex speaks, people listen." If you wish to know more about this topic, he is the one to turn to.

A couple of years ago, I flew to Brussels to attend the world premiere of my Concerto da camera, which I had composed for La Napolitaine; the performance was held at the Museum of Musical Instruments of Brussels, atop the hill overlooking the palace, and all sorts of other, auspicious sites. After the (truly wonderful) performance, I was introduced to a gracious lady whose facial features struck me as curiously familiar: after exchanging a few of the customary pleasantries, it turned out that she was Silvio Ranieri's grand-daughter. Talk about "stumbling on the Modern Roman school"!

I'm afraid I have overburdened you with trivia— all in one day! None of the above need mean anything to you. In all matters musical, it's the ear that will guide you whichever way you are to go.

Cheers,

Victor

[Rob MacKillop]

I am very tall and with large hands, so I am thinking a Calace might be better for me than an Embergher...

As we are moving away from the thread topic, I might start another with the subject line, Which Classical Mandolin?

[Jim Garber]

One other clarification. I believe that the 1956 Cranz edition of the Ranieri method is edited down to two volumes from the earlier, original edition which is much larger. I am not home at the moment but have a photocopy of the original Ranieri method which has additional studies, etc. I will take a look and see what the difference (if any) of that particular section you mention and if there is any clarification in the original edition.

[Rob MacKillop]

Thanks, Jim.

[trebleclef528]

Hi Rob.. I have all of the aformentioned mandolin mandolin methods, in fact I now have over 200 mandolin methods....aaaargh (what a boring person I am. I am currently working on producing a detailed website relating to mandolin methods)

Perhaps sometime in the near future Barbara and i can meet with you and you can have a look at the different methods... I can tell you about the methods, but barbara is the musical authority in this house... so I'm sure she would only be to happy to discuss different aspects of playing techneques and methodology with you.

Cheers
Ian
(ian Steel Lanarkshire Guitar and Mandolin Association)

[Jim Garber]

I just checked my Ranieri methods and I do have the 1956 volumes 1 and 2 and a photocopy of 1925 edition which has more exercises and details. For instance, to start exercise 15 is numbered 18 in the older book. I think there is another full volume after volume 2 as well.

[Rob MacKillop]

Hi Rob.. I have all of the aformentioned mandolin mandolin methods, in fact I now have over 200 mandolin methods....aaaargh (what a boring person I am. I am currently working on producing a detailed website relating to mandolin methods)

Perhaps sometime in the near future Barbara and i can meet with you

Hi Ian,

Regarding the first part of the quote - you are far from boring. No-one has done more for the mandolin in Scotland than you and Barbara. I never find enthusiasts boring. We need more of them.

Regarding the second part - I've sent you a private message here at the cafe. It would be great to see each other again.

Rob

[Dagger Gordon]

[QUOTE=Rob MacKillop;713931]

"Hi Ian,

No-one has done more for the mandolin in Scotland than you and Barbara. "


No question about that at all.

Dagger

[trebleclef528]

[QUOTE=Dagger Gordon;713933]

"Hi Ian,

No-one has done more for the mandolin in Scotland than you and Barbara. "


No question about that at all.

Dagger

Aw shucks... now you've got us blushing, your too kind
Thank you!