Pick direction and string crossing

[Roger Kunkel]

I'm learning violin (have pity on me). Bow direction when string crossing turns out to be a pretty big deal. When flatpicking I haven't payed much attention to it. I'm experimenting with this and trying to see what comes out of it. If I'm crossing from say, the D string to the A string, I try to downstroke the last note on the D string and upstroke the first not on the A string. This might mean using a hammer on instead of a pick stroke or starting a riff on an upstroke, etc. What do you think? Not important or worth spending some hours on? Maybe this is standard stuff I've been oblivious to, wouldn't be the first time.

[John McGann]

very important.

Alternate picking is the idea of playing downstokes on the downbeats, upstrokes on the upbeats, regardless of string crossing. Counter-intuitive at first, it is a very good technique that many players use most of the time.

There is also crosspicking, which is something else...

[Roger Kunkel]

Thanks John,

I guess Alternate picking is my default technique. I have learned and try to apply the DDU pattern, usually in bluegrass guitar arrangements. This may just be an issue of trying to blend my bowing and picking mentality, which may not be productive.

[Pete Martin]

Johns description is right on.

Here are 2 very good excercises. Play on the open strings named.


down up down up down up repeat endlessly
D D A D D A

down up down up down up repeat endlessly
A A D A A D

If you can do this comfortably over time, your pick direction should be fine. I used to do this a ton and my picking hand is very glad I did it!

[Pete Martin]

The previous posting doesnt allow correct spacing of the letters. Here it is again:

D down
D up
A down
D up
D down
A up
repeat a million times


A down
A up
D down
A up
A down
D up
repeat

[John Bertotti]

Funny I was doing a lesson witha very accomplished instructor and was told that unless the tempo and note values dictated it to keep everything in the down stroke. When I first demonstrated my playing for him it was Fur Elies, and I played everything DUDUDUDU etc. Have I confused something in my beginner mind?

[John McGann]

Funny I was doing a lesson witha very accomplished instructor and was told that unless the tempo and note values dictated it to keep everything in the down stroke. When I first demonstrated my playing for him it was Fur Elies, and I played everything DUDUDUDU etc. Have I confused something in my beginner mind?

"Different strokes" I suppose, I wouldn't want to contradict your teacher, but personally (and not professionally) I'd say downstrokes on quarter notes and/or lines that require that kind of articulation/emphasis.

For Beethoven, if the tempo is slow enough the downstrokes will be fine...the famous Vivaldi mando concerto that was used in Kramer vs. Kramer (and played by Andy Statman) would be all downstrokes, it's not all that fast...

Fiddle tune eighth notes at dance tempos are mostly DUDUDUDU. Think Monroe playing "Turkey In The Straw".

[John Bertotti]

I think he was saying the same thing, maybe I just misunderstood. I do find myself messing around with pick strokes now in all the songs I attempt, just to see how it changes the flavor.

Thanks!

[Patrick Gunning]

As would be expected, John and Pete are spot on about this. My favorite explanation of Pick Stroke Theory comes in Chris Thile's Essential Techniques DVD. A very thorough and clear explanation with exercises and application in scales and a pretty relevant tune.

[Rob Gerety]

Could you guys address how alternate picking should work when you are throwing in hammer ons and pull offs? Maybe some examples like you have given for the string changes above?

[Pete Martin]

Alternate picking is the idea of playing downstokes on the downbeats, upstrokes on the upbeats, regardless of string crossing.

The basic rule John stated still follows for hammers and pulls. If the picked note falls on the downbeat (4/4 time and eighth notes), it is down. If it is the off beat, it is up.

If a triplet is involved, you should try different directions and see what works for you.

Sam Bush often plays 1/8 note triplets (3 notes in a beat) as follows :

Note 1: pick down
Note 2: hammer (or pull)
Note 3: pick up

This works very well.

[Roger Kunkel]

Pete,

As I know you're a fiddle player, how much of a connection between your bowing and picking is there? Two different animals? I feel that fiddle playing is effecting my left hand technique and it's got me thinking about the right hand as well.

Thanks

[Rob Gerety]

Someone taught me to "pretend" that I was picking the note that I was sounding with a hammer on or pull off so that my right hand keeps moving in rhythm.

[jc2]

What do y'all think of the idea of inside and outside string crossings being equally important, as in

A-down,D-up,A-down, D-up

and

A-up,D-down.A-up,D-down

with the idea being that you should be able to do both equally well, even at speed, so that things will flow.....

[Rob Gerety]

Yup - I think you need both. If I remember correctly the Marshall DVD has a nice drill that develops that very skill.