Wiens Mandolins Dirty Laundry

[Kirk Albrecht]

While I agree with the complaints about the real issues regarding Jamie's business practices (as I have noted in my previous posts in this thread), making comments about his website picture really should have no place in this discussion. Let's treat him like a real person, and deal with the issues.

[MandoCowboy]

Jamie didn't want to post this picture on the board..
This was the 20th January.
There's quite a bit to see in the photo there, basically to me it simply shows a lot is done and moving towards the folks that are waiting. I know a lot of people have been assuming that there is a lot less in progress, so I hope this answers more questions than it creates anyway.

In that picture I count what, 11 or 12 unfinished mandos? That's an awful lot of spent deposit money sitting there, on both sides.

Something to consider. Will any of those mandos appear on the black market sold out from under a waiting list customer?

Seems like Wiens has done this before as I quote gtrmaker (a current long time wait list client of Wiens) from a previous post.

"Am I happy that a mandolin which supposedly was built for me he sold out from underneath me without ever consulting me? NO!"

After all, it is the new Wiens business plan to offer to sell mandos to those who paid $250 to be on his list.

I believe gtrmaker has already made mention of Wiens approaching him for additional funds due to lack of revenue because of this thread. Here's his quote:

"I received a recent request from him for more money because this public discussion has hurt him financially and forced him to seek other means to support himself which means that he is not concentrating on the mandolins he owes people."

There seems to be a lot of potential temptation there. I'd be watching Wiens very closely on this.

Walter

[Mike Bunting]

Jeez, he must have really been burning the midnight oil in the last month!

[Ted Eschliman]

Final reminder that we have less than one day to wrap this up, and from then on, the topic of Jamie Wiens and his questionable business practices will remain only as Message Board History. Invested parties are urged to complete their comments before February 12th, 6:00 AM CST.

Please note that a Google Search currently yields the thread as its 4th listing. No need to drag this out any longer after tomorrow; future attempts to discuss this topic will be locked down.

[jimbob]

Unfortunate deal, for sure....bet his waiting list isn't near as long now !

[Tim Heenan]

This one?

<copy protected picture removed from post by Moderator>

pic was removed.... but he does not have the look of a man who is loving what he's doing....................on the contrary......

Tim

[Kirk Albrecht]

This talk of Jamie's website picture is silly and beneath the dignity of this forum! Have any of you ever seen Beethoven's famous portrait? Talk about intense! It is just not fair to draw any conclusions about someone, their personality, their disposition, or how much they "enjoy" what they are doing from a web photo.

[grassrootphilosopher]

I sort of understand that people that are involved as a customer etc. may feel the need to vent angry feelings by expressing them. I also understand that Scott holds the thread open because of the publicity that Jamie Wiens gained as a builder because of Dan´s personal built-experience (not as a public relations campaign; If you look at the built-thread you will see in one post that Dan also mentioned that he forwarded money to Jamie Wiens...).

What I neither understand nor approve is the unnecessary public flogging that takes place here (Walter Josey´s recent posts included). I detest the numerous inflamatory remarks that lead nowhere and that would lead to a thread shutdown in minutes had this topic here not been exeptionally complex.

My hat is off to folks like gitrmaker who are in the position of a wronged party and judge the situation clearminded without making derogatory remarks about people´s personality etc.

[MandoCowboy]

I sort of understand that people that are involved as a customer etc. may feel the need to vent angry feelings by expressing them.

What I neither understand nor approve is the unnecessary public flogging that takes place here (Walter Josey´s recent posts included).

GRP,

It is a necessary public flogging.

Wiens was thrusted into builder stardom by the huge amounts of public praise given to him by a very respected poster on the Cafe. After what I and others have gone through with Wiens, it is self evident that the rise to fame was undeserved, and the accolades heaped upon him was misplaced. There's no way on GGE I would have lent my name to help a builder attain equal status with Loar fame with the traits that have now been exposed. It has led to a huge amount of grief over many many years for a number of unfortunate people. I would be embarrassed and ashamed to have misplaced my support that created the legend and myth as was done for Wiens.

Wiens misplaced trust from many who have given him so much, both in monetary value and in personal support. He has in many instances violated every reasonable aspect one would hope to experience from a good builder, and validated what one can expect from a bad one.

Though messy and uncomfortable, public floggings have a way of unraveling untruths.

Walter

[kudzugypsy]

i think mandocowboy hit on a theory i had some years ago when the mando renaissance began -

i've been a member of the cafe for many years and i noticed the sudden hype to legend status that people were pushing on some of the up and coming builders - EVERYONE was looking for the next Nugget, Gilchrist, Loar, etc and all of a sudden guys who had only made 4-5 mandos that happened to get in the right hands became heir to that throne by hype alone (- this isnt just mandos, its all over every forum where something is hyped and praised - i went thru this SAME kind of ordeal with Alan Hamel's "legendary" telecaster pickups - which he took the money by the bushel and vanished).

i think these young builders had no idea how much harder it was to earn the reputation over many many years instead of getting it over a 6 month period. the cafe archives are full of this years hot maker - they are hot for a year as their list fills up, then the classified are full of them as they get dumped for the next big thing - and its not really their fault - its the people trying to get in on the list before they hit the big time - mando speculation in other words. i know MANY people who did this during the mando boom - they were on multiple lists hoping that one would be the next Gil and they could cash in.

i just say all this to keep it in your mind as you read the raving reviews of someone who has only finished his 6th mandolin - its A LOT different than having a list full of deposits and 20+ people panting to get their mando finished. Weins isnt the only one - there are other well know builders in the same boat.

the problem is taking deposits - sometimes substantial sums to get on the list when the builder knows that it will be 3+ years out til they even begin this mando. i got on Gilchrists "closed" list and it cost me zero - i understood it would be 4 years before he even got to mine - when he contacted me 4 years later for 1/2 deposit, it was understood i would have the mando in 6 months and it was right on time. you learn this after building a few hundred mandolins - you know your output speed.

[papa willie]

Very insightful, kudzugypsy.

[Keith Erickson]

Very insightful, kudzugypsy.

Ditto.....

When I first looked at a custom build, I took the time to research. I contacted the builders, their customers and read the on line reviews. I have to say, in ever case, the feedback that I recieved back was all positive.

In the end, I kept on coming back to one builder. Nothing against the other builders, but I chose to take my custom build experience in a direction that I'm completely comfortable with.

With that being said, the key to my decision was customer feedback.

When Jamie Wiens first came on the scene, I read the reviews however I never did entertain the thought of a Wiens mandolin because it was not the direction I wanted to go. BUT if I did, I would have made every effort to contact customers.

Jim & Walt,

My post is not meant to be a swipe against either of you. What truly happened to you and others is tragic and the story needed to be told. It's so painful to have your faith shattered when look forward to something so special as a custom made mandolin. The stories were told and they are truly heartbreaking.

I believe we all have learned a terrible lesson through your eyes. I just pray that there is resolution for all involved parties.

Best regards,

[J.Albert]

"What I neither understand nor approve is the unnecessary public flogging that takes place here (Walter Josey´s recent posts included). I detest the numerous inflamatory remarks that lead nowhere and that would lead to a thread shutdown in minutes had this topic here not been exeptionally complex"

I've followed this thread from early on.

I have no problems with fur, feathers, flesh and bones flying around now and then.

If they didn't - and if this (as the leading mandolin site on the web) became a place where only good things could be said and only praise could be rendered - perhaps it might have to be renamed "the mandomilquetoastcafe.com".

Just teasin', Scott...

- John

[joshua collum]

Jamie, I have, like most of us here,admired your mandolins... What I don't understand is why you won't just refund Walter and both of you walk away from this...it looks like you have several mandolins in the works and many customers who won't "pester" you about it. Why not just end this professionally and move on? ....I remember hearing this as a kid..." Pride comes before destruction and a haughty spirit before the fall"....... Why not just make this right and move on? I ain't preaching, but this seems pretty cut and dry... I hope it all works out for everyone.

[Mteresko]

As an owner of one of Jamie's mandos, I am not completely objective. Let me state first that it is a great instrument in every regard, and after close to 6 years, the top is in perfect condition and shows no sign of caving in. By the way, where does one come up with the statistic that 10% of his tops have failed? I can sympathize with both sides of this train wreck of a situation, and understand that Jamie has made some extremely serious errors in dealing with his clients. However, this thread has at times seemed like a lynch mob populated by a lot of people with no real stake in the disagreement. I mean, commenting on his demeanor in a website photo is a cheap shot and completely irrelevant.

I hope that some good comes from all of this, and that Jamie continues to build, and that those waiting for mandos receive them soon, but it is definitely time to shut this thing down.

[troika]

3...2.....1.......

[Ted Eschliman]

As promised four days ago, we are locking the thread in an attempt to rein in superfluous public discussion on the matter of Jamie Wiens' business contested practices. It is our sincere wish that he and his customers come to a quick resolution and he can return to building the craft he was lauded for early in his career by many of the rest of the Cafe community.

For this to happen will take a time-tested track record, one impossible to establish short term. On behalf of the Moderators, we now consider the subject taboo for the forum until such recuperative actions have been documented, and customers concerns are resolved. We refuse to be judge and jury on this, so don't interpret this action as an endorsement or indictment. Any return to this matter will include a link reference to this thread and result in a swift thread lockdown.

We thank all non-involved parties for their patience in letting all 22 pages of dialogue regarding these unpleasant incidents run its final course.