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Thread: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

  1. #126
    Registered User 300win's Avatar
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    Default Re: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

    One of you posted that 'you didn't think age had anything to do with it '. I agree for some people they never slow down, but others do. Take me for instance. I will be 56 in 12 weeks or so, and I've picked mandolin, guitar and banjo since I was 10. I can not play fast anymore like I used to. I think the reason is a combination of arthritus in both hands, plus taking massive amounts of heart meds because I have a weird heart disease thet basically is making my heart grow larger and get stiff, had surgery in '06 that helped and the damage is on the left side of my heart. Now I didn't know that which ever side the damage is in a heart it will effect the opposite side of the body, in my case my damage being on the left results in my right leg staying swolen, my right arm is weaker plus my right hand will not move past a certain speed no matter what I do so these things do effect my ability to increase tempo. My left hand is as fast as when I was 18 years old, no problems at all. Last year a old picking pal gave me a cd of a jam we recorded one night about30 years ago. I played it a couple days after he gave it to me, I could not even keep up with myself on the chops on a few of the tunes much less take a break ! It was funny, I had to laugh because I had forgotten that at one time I was fairly swift, one of the tunes we played was 'Daybreak In Dixie'. I don't know how many bpms we were going but as they say down here in the mountains 'we had 'er in the wind !'.. As I said before you have to have 'drive' or what some call 'punch' or dynamics in music, esp. Bluegrass. Over the yesrs I have seen many BG bands, and quite a bit of them play some stuff way too fast, so that it actually loses energy in the song/tune. To me the 'drive' and the ability to play each note clearly is more important than speed. Of course some of us can do both, my hats off to you, I used to be one of 'those'. The band I play in now consists of a guy I've picked with all my life, he plays banjo, and he is as fast as ever, the other two are youngters in their early '30's. They know I can't play fast, so they accomidate me in some ways, but for what we lack in speed on a lot of stuff we do, we make up with it because we have a TON of drive on every song/tune we do. I like to hear these young guys now who can play fast, but only if they can do it cleanly. Sam Bush is my hero, he's about my age and he HAS NOT slowed down !

  2. #127

    Default Re: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

    Hey 300win, you just keep on keepin on man. It sounds like you've overcome some obstacles and keep playin' regardless of difficulties. Good for you.

    As for me, I'm just 47 and didn't start mandolin until I was 42 or 43. I've already forgotten which. I doubt I'll ever get into the hyper speeds some guys describe. 140, 150, 160 beats per minute in cut time? Not gonna happen for me I'm afraid. As to Will's technique for "overspeeding" and trying to trick your brain into going faster... heck, I can't even hum Whiskey Before Breakfast in time at 160 bpm.

    I have been trying to build some speed though, and here's what's been working for me (to the extent that I'm going to be able to play fast anyway): I've been doing the "pyramid" thing, playing slow and then speeding up, and then trying to play for really short periods at speeds that are WAY out of my reach right now except for maybe one, one beat, set of sixteenth notes. But whats helped me more than anything is to WATCH really fast player's right hands. They all seem to have that really short, wristy pick stroke. I then actually sit in from of a mirror, or window or someplace where I can see my reflection - the computer screen even -, and watch my right hand while I try to emulate that short wristy pick stroke. It seems to be working; keeping it loose of course seems to be the key. But then I'm only talking about getting up to about 120 bpm and then I blow up. I guess I'll never be a bluegrass star.

  3. #128

    Default Re: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

    Just a couple of thoughts here -- reality check alert -- I don't know if this will be helpful, but with regard to fast playing being a way of life, there are people who play 6-10 hours A DAY. I have a relative who is a professional musician and that's what he did when he was learning, and well into adulthood. When he was in high school and college, he played 2-3 gigs A DAY every Saturday. Also, some people (like my relative) have a NATURAL technique. For instance, my relative is a horn player. He can hold and do technique on ANY type of wind instrument, although he only is professional on his one specialty. When he was about 16, his mother was trying to play flute, and her hand/finger technique was very awkward and angular. He picked up her flute in his hands, the first time he'd ever held a flute, and his hands were perfect. For myself, I am not in that "class" and don't really expect myself to ever play like Bill Monroe, or really any of the very fast mandolin players. I used to be a good piano player, but had to acknowledge when I was in my 30s that I had technical limitations. I would never play much of the classical concert repertoire, even though my early teachers had that in mind for me. I ended up playing my own piano arrangements of 1920s-30s-40s show tunes, and while this was fun, it was not what I really wanted. I wanted to be an outstanding classical pianist, but I've never been one to play 6-8 hours a day. I finally switched from piano to Mandolin and also guitar, and although I am far from a professional, I have a lot more fun. One of my mandolin teachers, who is one of the world's greatest mandolin virtuosi, said it takes 10,000 hours of playing to be a professional on, well, really, any instrument. That is not unrealistic, if you do the math. The way I figure, that's 3 hours a day EVERY, SINGLE DAY, which makes about 1000 hours a year, and it would take 10 years. Correct my math, if I'm wrong.

  4. #129
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

    So, what was the end result of the speed quest? Did Miss Lonelyheart ever reach her goal?
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  5. #130
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    Default Re: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

    I used to live next door to Manhattan School of Music so I'd listen to a lot of people practicing 10 hours/day at once.

    Don't worry about logging 10K hours, think about what you're doing the next 5 minutes.
    Kentucky km900
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    a pedal steel (highly recommended); banjo, dobro don't get played much cause i'm considerate ;}

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  6. #131
    Yarrr! Miss Lonelyhearts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

    Bill, thanks for the PM that this thread revived.

    FWIW, I'm a "he." My username here is ironic: Miss Lonelyhearts is a 1930s novel by Nathanial West about a man who becomes an advice columnist, which makes a shambles of his own life.

    Did I ever reach my goal (hopes of picking 120-126 bpm)?

    Short answer: Nope.

    Long answer: Turns out my right hand "slowness" had a physiological basis. In 2011 I was diagnosed with a badly dislocated C3 vertebra, pressing into my spinal cord. The doc determined that it was an old injury, most likely from a bike wreck when I was 10. Over the years, the disk between C3 and C4 withered away, so the dislocation got worse, plus calcification of the back of the vertebra was really putting pressure on the spinal cord. I was fast losing using of my hands, and because the problem was so high in my neck (3rd vertebra down from the skull), if left untreated, it would lead to paralysis from the neck down. So I had surgery to pull C3 back into line, grind off the calcification, replace the disk, and fuse C3 and C4. The doc who did it was a consultant on Christopher Reeve's injury (also a C3 dislocation).

    The surgery helped, and after a few months of recovery I got my hands back. But the surgery also did significant and apparently permanent damage to my vagus nerve. I now have partial paralysis of my vocal cords, impaired swallowing and gag reflex, and heart arrhythmias.

    I'm 59 now. Conventional wisdom says that aging is a process of letting go, of gradually losing capabilities, friends, etc. There's some truth to that, but I'm finding that it's also a process of accumulation, too. So if the neck and vagus nerve issues weren't enough, I've also added focal dystonia in my left hand, tendinosis in my left elbow, a jerky right hand (clinically diagnosed as "hyperspasticity," a term that made me laugh out loud), and a 24/7 continuous, screaming-loud, high-pitched tinnitus in both ears. (Imagine having a leaf blower that never stops, in your head.)

    Needless to say, increasing my pick speed by 12 bpm has dropped far down my list of priorities.

    The good news is that I still play music. Not nearly as much as I used to, and not nearly as well. Sometimes all you can do is try to slow the inevitable decline....

    I still lurk on mandocafe because it's such a rare experience--people sharing their passion for something in fun, friendly, helpful conversation. In that spirit, I hope this thread at least generated some useful tips and ideas.
    Oops! Did I say that out loud?
    Once upon a time: fiddle, mandolin, OM, banjo, guitar, flute, whistle, beer

  7. #132

    Default Re: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

    Dear Miss/Mr Lonelihearts, thanks for the update. Thanks for starting this thread, and for hanging out at mandolinecafe. If it's any consolation about your physical condition, I have a friend who is a very good Old Time Banjo player. He said it took him 20 years to get good. He also told me that he'd originally wanted to be a bluegrass banjo player, but that his hands/fingers just "won't go that fast," so he "settled" on Old Time. He does not regret that decision, and loves old time music! I'm wondering if I'm like him that way -- my picking just "won't go that fast." I play a few things (Soldier's Joy, for one, and Redwing instrumental) pretty fast, but mostly I play at a comfortable medium tempo. That's just me, though, and the most I ever practice is 2 hours in one day. More often, I play 45 minuted to an hour a day, and that includes both mandolin playing and guitar/singing. It's just not my "nature" to play for many hours a day. Glad to hear you're still playing music at 59. I'm 76 and will never stop.

  8. #133
    Yarrr! Miss Lonelyhearts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Son of "How to increase picking speed?"

    Stringalong, I hope I'm still playing tunes at 76. A friend of mine is still gigging on fiddle at 80, sounding as good as he ever has. I'll be happy if I can continue to enjoy a few tunes at home.

    When I was a teen, I picked up Scruggs style banjo and then guitar (flat picking and finger picking) fairly quickly--I was teaching both at a music store outside Philadelphia by the time I was 15, back during the bluegrass revival. But I really wanted to play fiddle. Unfortunately, my arc of learning fiddle coincided with the onset of a genetic condition that made playing increasingly painful and wooden. The condition went undiagnosed for 20 years, and it took all that time to eventually sound halfway decent on fiddle. Then I got diagnosed and treated and started feeling what "normal" hands could do. What a revelation! Suddenly I could play! I made a lifetime of progress in a few years and got to the point where I was invited to teach at a few music camps and play with some top-notch musicians. That was a lot of fun! Six months later, my hands were going numb, and then came the neck surgery.

    It's important to keep life in perspective. When I first met the doc who eventually did the surgery, he walked into the exam room and asked, "Where's your wheelchair?" I said, "What?!" He said, "I've seen your neck x-rays and MRI--I know you didn't walk in here on your own." He made me get up and walk around the room to prove I wasn't paralyzed. He said it was remarkable that I hadn't been paralyzed by the initial injury when I was 10. So what seemed like bad news at 50 was actually good news spread back over 40 years.

    Also, it helps to bear in mind that there are many ways to participate in making music. I still teach a bit, and I also pen original tunes, a few of which have been recorded by award-winning musicians. I'll keep doing that as long as fresh melodies keep spooling up in my mind's ear. Funny enough, when I write a tune, it almost always happens with a mandolin in my hands.
    Oops! Did I say that out loud?
    Once upon a time: fiddle, mandolin, OM, banjo, guitar, flute, whistle, beer

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