Condino's sunburst technique on spruce

[Steve Sorensen]

I am ready to start finishing . . . and am stalling. I've watched the Condino video about 10 times -- totally makes sense for the back, sides and neck.

Same approach on the top? Seems like spruce is going to blotch like pine.

Going to try some test runs. Would love suggestions.

Thanks,
Steve

[amowry]

Spruce will blotch some unless it's sprayed, but a lot of people find that look to be desirable. Some ways to minimize it are to dampen the spruce with water first so that it will absorb the stain more slowly and evenly, to use a fairly dry rag when applying the stain, and to apply many coats of a weak stain, to give you more control over the application. You can practice on scrap, but the real challenge with carved tops is that the spruce has areas of exposed endgrain, which tends to absorb the stain fastest. Some people apply a washcoat of shellac or hide glue, or (?) to make the absorption more even.

[buddyellis]

Dryish, dilute stain, at least in the near-middle areas, and with the suggestion 'if you don't want color there, do NOT put any there' If you put that rag down anywhere with color on that spruce, it will stay. On maple you can move it around a bit, but not on spruce. Airbrush around the edges to darken and even out the outer edge. Go slow and careful. Impatience will lead to blotchy stain. Frankly it will look somewhat blotchy when it dries even with the best of care. Don't freak out, with finish on, things look like they did when they were wet.

P.S. practice on scrap. Then practice some more. You'll likely screw up the first 3 or 5, but don't fret.

[sunburst]

Yep, a carved arched top of straight grained spruce can be one of the most difficult pieces of wood to rub a sunburst upon. I try to "read" the top and it's dye-absorption characteristics at the very first of the process, and simply avoid the parts that take the stain fastest. Concentrate on the parts that don't take the dyes quickly and avoid the places that do, keep everything damp but not too wet with solvent, keep the dyes fairly dilute so you can work long enough to even things out without things getting too dark, correct colors as needed, and usually I end up doing a little airbrush touch up at the end of the process.

Sanding thoroughly before starting is a big help. By thoroughly I mean just that; I only sand to 220 grit, but I sand thoroughly to 220 grit. Sanding beyond 220 is not needed for a rubbed 'burst and is a waste of time. 'Thoroughly' doesn't mean sanding to 600, 1000 or finer grit, it means being sure all scratches from previous grits are removed before moving on to finer grits, but before that it means that the starting grit (50 to 80, normally) must remove all tool marks and damage with the knowledge that damage that happens during the building process can and does extend below the surface of the wood. If I see sand scratches still in the wood when I start staining I stop and sand them out, then resume staining. Usually, "raising the grain" once or twice finds any remaining scratches and/or damage during the sanding process.

I'll have to admit that I haven't seen James' video, but I think it's possible that we both got started learning 'bursts from the same guy(?), so our processes might be similar, but almost surely not exactly alike. One develops his/her own variations with experience.

[Austin Clark]

All these guys suggestions are right on.

Take care with the spruce and putting on too much dark color initially. With the maple, you can wash out the darker color from the center to the edge with solvent or yellow stain, but with the spruce, if you try to wash the darker color out, this will create splotching. I try to put a small amount of dark color around the edge and then wash or blend it towards the center with a pretty dry rag or with only a small amount of yellow on it. Once you have the right balance of color, then you can rub/blend from the center out, like you would for the back.

However you do it, use much less moisture than you would for the back and be ready to blend the darker stuff really quickly 'cause if it dries it will be much harder to blend evenly.

[j. condino]

Steve:

I bet you could just call the dork in the video and ask a few questions...

John- by the time I came along the "old guy" already had a crew of young punks to do all his finish work. The major thing I learned from him was that I never want to have to make payroll every week for 25 guys, pay the electric bills, order tonewoods, cases fittings, fix all the broken machinery, answer the telephones, and then make payment on a $750k bank loan leftover from the last owners, before I can even think about having $20 left over for me at the end of the day......

j.

[evanreilly]

Just gotta make a semi-off-topic comment about grandcanyonminstrel:
He brought his 'home-made' bass to a jam session I was at recently; it was a stunning blonde!! And he sure danced it around good. That boy ain't no slouch on the bass fiddle!!!!

[j. condino]

Thanks Evan; that old guy next to me on the mandolin tore it up pretty good too!

As long as we're off topic, the first Monday of the month (tomorrow), Adam Masters hosts a gypsy swing jam here in Asheville that usually brings out some fantastic players, starts off at full speed and never slows down all night; highly reccommended- the big blonde and I will be there tomorrow!

Here is a little sneak preview of the blonde. In about six weeks, it will get "sunbursted" and I'll have the new video up for everyone to checkout. If you think building and finishing a mandolin is challenging, you can't imaging how much work a double bass takes!!!






j.
www.condino.com

[Dale Ludewig]

OMG!
James, yikes.

[sunburst]

Wow, that much wood with so few blemishes! I vote for keeping it blonde!
(Oh, you didn't say anything about voting... never mind )

[j. condino]

For folks that haven't seen it, here is the link to the sunburst video that the nice folks over at Fine Woodworking shot last year:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/Mater....aspx?id=30136

Here is another link for the bass dorks in the crowd (I'm one of 'em!) that chronicles this build along with a bit of off topic rambling and a lot of photos. Sometime in the next year, you should see a multi-issue article series on all of the details and construction methods for this build in the Guild of American Luthier's journal, American Lutherie, and it will be at most of the west coast trade shows next summer. As always, anyone interested is welcome to stop by the shop for a few laughs and a bit of fast picking to check it out, but be warned- you'll want one. It is not for sale, and I don't know if I ever need to build another, but WOW I sure do like playing it!

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...ht=james+build

j.
www.condino.com

[Dale Ludewig]

Not for sale? I've said that before....

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'm with John Hamlett - keep it blonde.That's one of the most beautiful instruments that i've ever seen, & having seen some of the instruments posted on here, that's saying a LOT !!,
Ivan

[Steve Sorensen]

James,
Thanks for your help . . . and for posting pics of how you could offer blonde to a client after the fact!
Steve

[Mario Proulx]

Whoa! Bursting that bass would be such a shame!