I love playing that song but I was wondering if anyone knew what Bill(Monroe) tuned his strings to on his mandolin? I knew he did some kind of weird cross-tuning thing but I was never able to figure out the exact keys.
Thanks!
I love playing that song but I was wondering if anyone knew what Bill(Monroe) tuned his strings to on his mandolin? I knew he did some kind of weird cross-tuning thing but I was never able to figure out the exact keys.
Thanks!
Rigel R-100
I Pick, Therefore I Grin!
EE>FD
AA>AC
The G and d strings remain the same, this is according to the Monroe instruction DVD with Sam Bush.
It is interesting to note that he recorded that song not with his faithful '23 Loar but his 1964 Gibson F5. After recording the song he walked the mandolin in that tuning across the street to the old CMHF and donated the mandolin to the museum. That mandolin remains today at the new CMHF in that same tuning on display.
That's an interesting point. I've often wondered if Bill Monroe realised that his '23 Loar wasn't always up to scratch re.subtleties of tone & that's why he used the '64 F-5. It's quite possible that irrespective of any shortcomings that his Loar might have had,that he would never forsake it for another when playing live.
On one of his 'tuition' DVD's he plays another Mandolin in the 'Get Up John' tuning,i'm assuming that it 's the F-5 in question & it sounds so much cleaner & more clear than the Loar,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
I suspect that the mandolin that Bill plays 'GUJ' on in the Homespun video belonged to Ralph Rinzler. Bill used to use Ralph's mandolin for this tuning when Ralph was managing WSM & the BGB, and since Ralph was in charge of the Homespun project (kind of his legacy; he never finished the biography he was working on), I suspect Bill used Ralph's F-5.
I think the tuning on 'Last Days' is some flavor of C#m, to stay on topic.
It would not be the Fake F5 Ralph is holding in the above photo. That is before he got his mid20's Fern. That one is a converted 50's F5 to a Fern F5. It still has the "big" headstock on it. I'm pretty sure Monroe used the '64 F5 for that song because that is the mandolin he was using live to play that song before it was recorded. Since it was already tuned and ready to go it was easier to use that one in the studio on that song as he did use his '23 Loar on all the other songs. Same goes for the DVD. He didn't want to bother with re-tuning his Loar F5 so he just grabbed one ready to go for GUJ which in that case was Rinzler's mid20's Fern. I have a live tape where Monroe got a request for GUJ and he told the boy he didn't have another mandolin to re-tune for that tune. So the boy gave him a round hole model and Monroe re-tuned it before going on his 2nd set. However time was runing out and the BGBoys had to start without Bill for the first few songs and then Monroe comes out with the borrowed round hole mandolin and saying he was suppose to tune it for GUJ but could not get the mandolin tuned for that song but did get it tuned up for "Bluegrass Ramble" which is in the old straight A tuning the fiddler's used for Black Mtn. Rag. So Monroe rips into the Ramble in top speed and quickly changes it out to grab the Loar in seconds and ready to kick off Roanoke. To my knowledge it was the only time Monroe played the Bluegrass Ramble live. In later years Monroe kept his 2nd '23 Loar tuned for GUJ.
As I recall the origin of that tuning is interesting. In "Can't You Hear Me Calling?", the author states that Bill had fallen asleep in the office of a trailer park (he was courting the manager) and woke up to a much colder day than when he fell asleep. His mandolin had gone out of tune and had either "tuned itself" to this tuning or close enough that Bill fiddled around with it a bit and liked what he heard.
Nelson
Madison, Alabama
--------------------
2011 Duff F5
1928 Gibson A
This thread makes me think of how important it was that WSM recorded "Master of Bluegrass", and named it as he did; It is a lot like Robert Johnson's 29 sides (and believe me, I don't say that lightly) in that for all time, if anyone wants to know what all the fuss was about, it is there to listen to for yourself. The tone and projection that he pulls from #73987 is unparalleled in my opinion on any other mandolin recording, and besides the tone of that Loar, it documented his powerful right-hand technique whose contribution to that tone was considerable. He was old enough at the time to be able to put almost everything into it that he had gained throughout his career, but young enough that he had not yet lost his edge. That he made the entire project instrumental, leaving off any vocals, was the masterstroke.
But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
And London never fails to leave me blue
And Paris never was my kinda town
So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues
Not wishing to hi-jack the OP's thread,but when did Ralph Rinzler get his '20's Fern ?. I'm wondering which Mandolin he played on the 2 Greenbriar Boys LP's that i have,which were recorded in the early '60's. It was the sound of that Mandolin that switched me on to the instrument way back then. It's a shame that it took me another 40 years before i bought one. I know that one of his instruments now resides in France,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
I assume you mean to "My Last Days on Earth"?
G#-G#/C#-C#/G#-B/C#-E
If you play it this way it matches perfectly with the recording. He changed it for the Homespun DVD.
I keep one mandolin tuned in this tuning because it's my favorite mandolin song of all time and I always play it when I do a performance.
There's a pretty good tab of it at Mandozine.
Fretbear, I agree with you. I have all the Bear Family sets, and the disc with the Master of Mandolin tunes is my favorite of all. Monroe's mastery of the instrument and his ability to show its raw power as well as its evocative abilities make it a must have.
Nelson
Madison, Alabama
--------------------
2011 Duff F5
1928 Gibson A
So the other mandolin Bill is playing on the homespun video with Sam Bush (1992) is also a 23 Loar? Anyone familiar with the serial nr on that one?
The 2nd Loar bought by Monroe from a little old lady after her husband passed on in 1973 was a Feb. 26, 1923 serial no. 72214. It was also damaged with the fire poker on that cold day at the Monroe Estate in 1985. Gibson repaired both mandolins and the 2nd Loar never got back to it's original sound after the repair as it received more damage to the tone bars and top although Monroe did continue to use the 2nd Loar for special tunings. It's whereabouts today are unknown by son James or so he claims. The original Loar case for the 2nd Loar was sold at the Monroe Estate Tag sale in 2002 for $250. Anyone who knows the whereabouts of this lost Loar should contact James Monroe or the Hendersonville, TN Police Dept.
I do not know when Ralph Rinzler bought his mid20's Fern but it was likely after he left the Greenbriar Boys so those recordings were done either with his old 50's F5 or the conversion Fern F5.
Thank you for the info, 5floar! Anything at all you don't know about Loar mandolins?
So, has anyone ever transcribed the orchestral parts to "My Last Days on Earth"?
May have an opportunity coming up to stage a performance with a string section.
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"but did get it tuned up for "Bluegrass Ramble" which is in the old straight A tuning the fiddler's used for Black Mtn. Rag." I believe the tuning does involve one pair of strings tuned differently, e"e" -> e" c#", which of course a fiddler can't duplicate. Indeed it's based on Black Mountain Blues. We covered this in a thread in Feb. 2006. So all Monroe had to do to get that other mando in shape for BG Ramble was drop one e" string to c#".
Butch Baldassari and I did the transcriptions for Homespun in 1994 when it was originally released on VHS. We had to get Ralph Rinzler to sign off on the transcriptions before it could be released. Later I converted it to DVD for Homespun. In 1996 we, The Nashville Mandolin Ensemble, recorded it on a performance project for Mel Bay Publications. I put it on my YouTube channel.
Just watched that NME video again. Very poignant. Yes, sir.
Last Days on Earth is my favorite instrumental LP. There's not a bad recording on the whole thing. Bill had great musicians and his mando picking was in top form. The material was top notch, great writing. Well produced. I still, of course have the LP. I'm still hoping someone puts it on CD. Other than here on the cafe, it is an underrated recording.
Bob
re simmers
And the LP cover is just marvy, all pre-smash up.
Practiced this tune all weekend in the tuning that sam bush described on the homespun dvd. Wow, I think I will be leaving one of my mandolins tuned this way all the time. What an awesome sound and such a beautiful song.
[QUOTE=mandopickerer;785787]I love playing that song but I was wondering if anyone knew what Bill(Monroe) tuned his strings to on his mandolin? I knew he did some kind of weird cross-tuning thing but I was never able to figure out the exact keys.
Thanks Monroe plays this in a D minor. The outside E string goes up to F the inside E string drops down to D. The outside A string goes to a C the inside A string stays the same to an A. The D strings stay the same. The G strings both go to A. Now you need to use a light set of strings because medium strings will break. Guitar will play in a D minor then to F then A minor back to D minor then to G major then to A major then back to D minor. The interlude you will have to play around to find it. The 3rd part plays in a D major to an F major back to D major then to a G major than repeat. Chimes are done on the 12th fret. If you follow these instructions slowly you will enjoy playing one of the greatest instrumentals ever written. Monroe also crossed tuned the instrumental "Get Up John" If you learn this get in touch with me and I'll give you the tuning for Get Up John.
Sam Bush's DVD of Monroe's instrumentals DVD #2 has all of the tabulature and a slow breakdown of each song with the tuning and the best money you can ever spend or buy I believe it's $29.95 at Home Spun Tapes.com. It has Get Up John on it. It has a complete booklet of the tabs and notes. Sam stops and gives you the note voicings of each song. I believe it has 10- to 12 songs on it. Good luck!
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