Birtchwood Casey will not ship to Canada either. That's free trade for you.
Birtchwood Casey will not ship to Canada either. That's free trade for you.
Jim Baker
i'd be very interested in what birchwood casey had to say about their finish if you can find that article jim
i don't use any sealer under tru-oil - its pretty thick and quick drying - i doubt if much soaks in
Cabellas shows 3 oz. bottles on their site. The Bass Pro shop doesn't show anything. Apparently it's available from Gagnon Sports in Oshawa but I don't know what sizes. I've emailed them.
Jim Baker
Unless you are really doing a lot of Tru-oil, get the smallest size bottle. Once it's open and you have a part-bottle, it goes thick/hard pretty fast, unless you do the bloxigen, or put marbles to raise the level. I've stored the part bottle upside down, and that worked for a while. One small bottle will do several instruments if they are done together. Can't see the need for a lot at once.
Ditto what David said. I bought the 8 oz. bottle, finished two instruments, and had a WHOLE lot left over, which I stored upside down, but finally chucked out after a couple years as unreliable. I'm sure I'll use it again, but might decant off into 2 oz. containers if I get the 8 oz. next time.
benny
Here's the WHMIS sheet on Tru - Oil (as far as composition goes...):
3. COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Description CAS # Weight %
Mineral Spirits 8052-41-3 > 56
Modified Oil Proprietary < 33
Linseed Oil Proprietary < 11
This is straight from Birchwood-Casey's site. http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/sport/.../23035-TO8.pdf
In the mad rush to extol the virtues of Tru-Oil as an instrument finish, let's not forget the fact that more than 56% of what you're putting on to the instrument is solvent, in the form of mineral spirits...
"...i doubt if much soaks in..." Really??? It's made to soak in! That's why there's so much solvent in it! It's made to soak into much harder wood and closed-pored wood than spruce or mahogany. Most gunstocks are made of walnut, and that's what this product was developed for! You bet your boots it soaks in!
Oil finishes, by their very nature, are much easier to apply than lacquers or varnishes. This puts them well within the reach of the average joe who wants to try his hand at wood finishing, but that doesn't make them automatically the best finish for the job. Slopping all that solvent onto the soundboard of my instrumet is NOT something I want to do! I wouldn't go near the stuff as an instrument finish, except maybe for a neck...
Jim Baker
Both lacquers and varnishes (and pretty much any finish other than powder coating) are mostly solvent and most are solvents that are much more harsh than mineral spirits. "Varnish" is a bit of a catch-all phrase but in general instrument varnishes are some sort of polymerized oil (synthetic, natural or a combination of several) with a solvent. I think it's fair to categorize Tru Oil as a type of varnish. I also feel that it's a good, durable DIY finish and, as with pretty much any finish, if it's kept thin the sound of the instrument will not suffer.
From what I've learned so far, I don't think I'd hesitate to finish all but the top with tru oil. I don't think the jury is in on that one yet.
I'm leaning toward french polish shellac for the top assuming I can find suitable alchohol. Sourcing suitable materials is a real problem in Canada.
I might even consider rattle can laquer if I could find that. You'd think we were living in a third world country.
Jim Baker
I wish I was able to find the link which discusses some tests done on penetration of Tru-Oil into softwood tops. I can't locate it, but the gist was that there's very little penetration if it's applied correctly.
The old LMI catalog discussed Tru-Oil's use as an open pore finish; the secret to success was adequate wood preparation, i.e., sanding to 1000 or 1200 grit, and rubbing off as much as you could immediately after application. With such an approach, it's hard to imagine that the initial coats would have a chance to penetrate. Reason would suggest then that the first coats would act as a sealer and that subsequent coats would sit on top of them. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on an instrument top, despite the fact that it offers little protection from wear and tear. That said, it's a finish that's easily repaired.
Last edited by Pete Brown; Apr-17-2010 at 1:42am.
I use both French polish and Tru-Oil. On the last instrument that I oiled, this baritone uke, I applied the Tru-oil with a pad as though I was French polishing. This way I managed to apply a number of very thin coats which only need a light sand with very fine micro mesh between coats. After a week I used 0000 steel wire and bees wax.
Cheers Gary
www.navguitars.co.uk
Very nice uke - I've got a couple of Tenors and a Concert in the works.
The only finish that doesn't soak into the wood is no finish.
Tru-oil has proven to be an excellent instrument finish for many years now. The point is for a builder to pick a finish that suits his situation, and learn to apply it well.
I finally found some tru oil at a local gun show. No excuse now.
Jim Baker
Tru-oil is amazingly easy to work with and to achieve good results with.
They make their own sealer, available in a similar bottle.
On the down side, a luthier recently told me that Tru-Oil contains some additives which can be harmful to humans. He said that in California Tru-oil has to be sold without these additives. Does anyone else know anything about this?
No reference to CA that I could find, but you can look for yourself here: http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/sport/msds.asp (Interesting that they list Tru-Oil in gallons!)
If it's not in the MSDSs, it's not fact.
The state of California, however, requires that anything like Tru-Oil (a staggering list that includes lots of things you find everywhere from gas stations to gun shops to grocery stores) carry the ubiquitous Prop 65 warning:
California Proposition 65
Attention California Residents:
California's Proposition 65 entitles California consumers to special warnings for products that contain chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm if those products expose consumers to such chemicals above certain threshold levels. We care about our customers' safety and hope that the information below helps with your buying decisions.
The general Proposition 65 notice is as follows:
WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.
In addition, there are specific warnings for the following specific products:
* Tools
* Electrical Cords
* Buffing Compounds & Finishing Products
Tools
California requires the following notice:
WARNING: Some dust created by power sanding, sawing, grinding, drilling, and other construction activities contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Some examples of these chemicals are:
* lead from lead-based paints,
* crystalline silica from bricks and cement and other masonry products, and
* arsenic and chromium from chemically treated lumber.
Your risk from exposure to these chemicals varies, depending on how often you do this type of work. To reduce your exposure, work in a well-ventilated area and with approved safety equipment, such as dust masks that are specially designed to filter out microscopic particles.
Electrical Cords
California requires the following notice:
WARNING: The wires of this product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Wash hands after handling.
Buffing Compounds & Finishing Products
California requires the following notice on buffing compounds & finishing products that contain progesterone:
WARNING: This product may contain progesterone, a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer. Consult with your physician before using this product.
Tru-Oil carries a Prop 65 warning.
Thanks, Paul.
I found this (below) on side effects of progesterone. The only side effect I recall was the onset of anger when I would finish a coating session and then noticed that I had "missed a spot."
Progesterone Oil
All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or minor, side effects. Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome when using Progesterone Oil:
Acne; drowsiness; nausea; pain, redness, and swelling at injection site; trouble sleeping; weakness.
Seek medical attention right away if any of these SEVERE side effects occur when using Progesterone Oil:
Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, throat, or tongue); breast pain or tenderness; calf or leg pain or swelling; changes in menstrual flow, including breakthrough bleeding, spotting, or missed periods; chest pain; coughing up blood; fast or irregular heartbeat; fever; flushing; lumps in the breast; mental or mood changes (eg, anxiety, depression); seizures; severe dizziness or fainting; severe stomach pain; shortness of breath; slurred speech; sudden loss of coordination; sudden or severe headache or vomiting; swelling of fingers or ankles; unusual weight gain or loss; vision problems (eg, double vision, partial or complete loss of vision); weakness, numbness, or pain in the arms or legs; yellowing of the skin or eyes.
Progesterone
I have a few of those symtoms already.
Jim Baker
hey jim - could'nt figure out how to send you a private post - i just noticed you're from merrickville ON - i'm a 5-generations ottawa valley boy myself - kinburn, woodlawn, carp - i often go thru merrickville to visit relatives in perth whenever i'm back - beautiful little town - i've been in vancouver for more than 30 years now
Hey Bob! Small world. I work in Perth. Merrickville has become a swarming tourist trap. There was a time when you could drive through on a weekend without stopping to avoid pedestrians. Not any more.
Jim Baker
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